theory on jenny - not for the faint of heart

[Chance]

i have an interesting theory about jenny.

i think she could be a spy.

this theory rests on the following assumptions -

- gabriel was the doctor.
- nita was the person saved at imprisonment 2.
- gabriel contacted nita after saving her from imprisonment.

allan has since confirmed assumptions 1 and 2, and i don't really think 3 is a stretch.

now, follow me closely. gabriel contacts nita - thus, nita knows the identity of the doctor. now, keep in mind, by jenny's own admission, she and nita were in contact by this time. also by jenny's own admission - nita thought jenny was a spy. why wouldn't nita tell her gabriel's the doctor? subsequently, gabriel is imprisoned by the spies. the spies then imprison nita because they can't trust her - she's already gotten rid of one spy (alexei) and she pulls major weight in the burg. jenny reveals that nita claimed to her, faking chats with nita that make jenny seem like a citizen.



thoughts/comments are appreciated. except comments that are basically 'you idiot, you mentioned the doctor in some form or fashion, how dare you'.

[Jenny]

Alright, well since we're bringing up the doctor anyways, I might as well post the group chat where this came out.

14:29] spies8allan: well the fact of the matter is i know nita was the target night 1, and she was who was saved
[14:30] Spies8Awohali: And you know this how? (Without divulging the name of a doctor, of course, if you know who it is)
[14:30] spies8jenny: How are you sure on that?

I mean I know the two of us have always figured it was her, which is why we decided it'd be good for you to claim to her, but it's not a guarenteed thing as far as I know.
[14:30] spies8allan: i do know who the doctor is
[14:30] spies8jenny: That's news to me.
[14:30] spies8jenny: Well don't say who it is
[14:30] spies8allan: i found out last night
[14:30] spies8tina: Topic change time.
[14:30] spies8tina: Topic change!
[14:30] Spies8Awohali: Agreed, it is good not to say anything about that whatsoever.
[14:30] spies8hambone: damn 0_0
[14:30] spies8jenny: SO HOW ABOUT THAT GENERIC SPORTS TEAM?
[14:30] spies8allan: why?
[14:30] spies8jenny: DO THEY PLAY SPORTS OR WHAT?
[14:31] Spies8Awohali: The MLB All-Star Selections were this afternoon.
[14:31] spies8hambone: why would they reveal to allan, hes not cleared
[14:31] spies8tina: TOPIC CHANEG!
[14:31] spies8hambone: ok
[14:31] Spies8Awohali: An interesting question, Hambone, but I think it is best not to even speculate about this topic.
[14:31] spies8hambone: jenny
[14:31] spies8hambone: dont post this part of the convo?
[14:31] spies8allan: ok no, serious question
[14:31] spies8allan: why don't i say who the doctor is?
[14:31] spies8allan: someone explain
[14:31] spies8jenny: ...
[14:31] spies8hambone:
[14:31] Spies8Awohali: They will die
[14:31] spies8hambone: loooooool
[14:31] spies8allan: they're already dead
[14:31] spies8jenny: Because the spies would kill them?
[14:32] spies8allan: Gabe was the doctor
[14:32] Spies8Awohali: If they are already dead, how would you have found out who the Doctor was last night?
[14:32] spies8tina: What part of TOPIC CHANGE do you not get.
[14:32] spies8tina: NO NO NO NO.
[14:32] spies8tina: We are now talking about Isaac. Go.
[14:32] Spies8Awohali: Isaac has nice hair.
[14:32] spies8jenny: What's the case on him again?
[14:32] Spies8Awohali: And he and Jasmine are very lovely together
[14:32] spies8allan: everyone involved in my knowledge is dead..... so i didn't harm anything by saying that
[14:33] spies8allan: so, sorry to make u upset
[14:33] spies8allan: just trying to help
[14:33] spies8allan: moving on i guess
[14:33] Spies8Awohali: It is quite all right, Allan. I do not think that anything incredibly damanging has been said, but it is not good to continue with this subjec,t for certain.
[14:35] spies8chance: well hell. anyway. allan, i have a question for you.
[14:35] spies8chance: whose idea was it for you to claim to nita? yours or jenny's?
[14:35] spies8chance: sorry for my absence, been catching up on the group chats posted.
[14:35] spies8allan: mine
[14:35] spies8allan: after round 2
[14:35] spies8allan: even though i hated nita
[14:35] spies8allan: i knew she was innocent
[14:36] spies8hambone: and she wasnt
[14:36] spies8allan: i had a suspicion she was saved
[14:36] spies8allan: and i thought if i opened up to her
[14:36] spies8allan: she might tell me who the doctor was
[14:36] spies8allan: who i could then approach and work with
[14:37] spies8allan: but nita didn't tell me she was the one saved
[14:37] spies8mary: has joined the chat
[14:37] spies8allan: which now makes sense, cuz she was 3rd party
[14:37] Spies8Awohali: Osiyo, unali'i Mary.
[14:37] spies8mary: Hi.
[14:37] spies8jenny: Hi Mary!
[14:37] spies8chance: 'sup mary.\
[14:37] spies8jenny: I'll be right back you guys, food for me!
[14:37] spies8allan: and it also makes sense about the impisionment choice
[14:37] spies8allan: that round
[14:37] spies8allan: if u think about it
[14:38] spies8tina: This just is such a bad topic of conversation. Seriously.
[14:38] Spies8Awohali: It is indeed.
[14:38] spies8chance: i agree, tina, but it does support a theory i've been working on.
[14:38] spies8mary: What's the topic?
[14:38] spies8hambone: lol
[14:38] spies8hambone: uhhh
[14:38] Spies8Awohali: A bad one, Mary.
[14:38] spies8chance: a bad one, mary.
[14:38] spies8chance: hahaha, hal.
[14:38] Spies8Awohali: Chance, this is the second time we have done that
[14:39] spies8hambone: were talkin bout awohali's butt
[14:39] Spies8Awohali: I am beginning to be afraid.
[14:39] spies8hambone: of his butt
[14:39] Spies8Awohali: Yes, we were.
[14:39] Spies8Awohali: The butt of my rifle, of course.
[14:39] spies8allan: well i figure i'm dead after this round anyway... might as well get it out
[14:39] spies8allan: anyway.... ew to his butt
[14:39] spies8chance: someone remind me to poke broderick about this lovely quote by him later -
[14:39] spies8chance: [01:52] spies8broderick: My ultimate point, is that if you are going to lurk, I am going to call you out for it.
[14:40] spies8tina: I thought the thing he said before that sounded like he sent it to the wrong window and that was trying to play it off as a joke.
[14:41] spies8chance: yeah, i saw that.
[14:41] Spies8Awohali: What did he say before that?
[14:41] spies8chance: 'i will be flabbergasted if the spies don't win this game' or something similar.
[14:42] spies8tina: [01:37] spies8broderick: Lol. Aye aye aye. I will be flabbergasted if the spies don't win
[14:42] spies8allan: thats a pretty poor attitude
[14:42] Spies8Awohali: Is there a place I can view the context of these quotes?
[14:42] spies8tina: Apparently he said it to "stop people from lurking"/
[14:43] spies8tina: spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg&action=display&thread=822
[14:43] spies8tina: In most recent update.
[14:45] spies8allan: well i think i'm going to go
[14:45] spies8allan: bye guys
[14:46] spies8chance: later alln.
[14:46] spies8allan: has left the chat
[15:04] Meebo Message: Network interruption detected. This chat room session has ended.
[15:04] gurgelain: has left the chat
[15:04] spies8jenny: has left the chat
[15:04] Spies8Awohali: has left the chat
[15:04] spies8hambone: has left the chat
[15:04] spies8chance: has left the chat
[15:04] spies8tina: has left the chat
[15:04] spies8mary: has left the chat

[Hambone]

Might as well just add to this thread so I can get a public answer from Jenny as to why she revealed Allan's citizen role even though Savannah had the votes by 3 at least to get eliminated, and yet she chose NOT to reveal Nita's 3rd party role.

Nita only told Jenny less than half of her missions, and some of those were lies as we now found out... Nita told Jenny she needed to survive until Exile9, but it was really Exile8, so she was trying to slide in a little secret victory for herself. So anyway, Nita didn't reveal like 8 of her missions. What if one was "KILL OWEN" and another was "KILL CHANCE", etc. I would not have trusted Nita at all once I found out that someone I perceived as a citizen more than anybody else was actually not on my team at all. So why'd you choose to not reveal Nita's non-citizen role, but you were fine with revealing Allan's citizen role?

Nita may have had one or two missions that were pro-citizen, but I'm sure there were a LOT that were anti-citizen, considering there are only 7 spies and WAY more citizens. So by common knowledge, I could guess that a majority of Nita's missions were anti-citizen.

So yeah, Jenny, take it away hun.

[Jenny]

Might as well just add to this thread so I can get a public answer from Jenny as to why she revealed Allan's citizen role even though Savannah had the votes by 3 at least to get eliminated, and yet she chose NOT to reveal Nita's 3rd party role.

I was under the impression that Al was leading in votes, and was going to get himself killed otherwise. Would you rather, when faced with that situation, I decided that it'd be just fine for him to get exiled and said nothing?

Nita only told Jenny less than half of her missions, and some of those were lies as we now found out... Nita told Jenny she needed to survive until Exile9, but it was really Exile8, so she was trying to slide in a little secret victory for herself. So anyway, Nita didn't reveal like 8 of her missions. What if one was "KILL OWEN" and another was "KILL CHANCE", etc. I would not have trusted Nita at all once I found out that someone I perceived as a citizen more than anybody else was actually not on my team at all. So why'd you choose to not reveal Nita's non-citizen role, but you were fine with revealing Allan's citizen role?

Nita may have had one or two missions that were pro-citizen, but I'm sure there were a LOT that were anti-citizen, considering there are only 7 spies and WAY more citizens. So by common knowledge, I could guess that a majority of Nita's missions were anti-citizen.


First off, at least as far as I understand the role, she got equal amounts of spy,neutral, and citizen tasks, specifically so that she would have some ability to help out the side she wanted to help while doing her tasks.

Second off, It's possible that as the game went on it would become needed for her role to be made known, if she seemed to be helping the spies out. But for the time being, I don't know about you, but she certainly seemed to me like she was trying to help exile spies. What good would it have done to bring it up, while she was still helping the cits?

[Awohali]

I was under the impression that Al was leading in votes, and was going to get himself killed otherwise. Would you rather, when faced with that situation, I decided that it'd be just fine for him to get exiled and said nothing?

I would have rather investigated the situation myself to see what danger he was actually in, personally.

First off, at least as far as I understand the role, she got equal amounts of spy,neutral, and citizen tasks, specifically so that she would have some ability to help out the side she wanted to help while doing her tasks.

Which means that she would have been working against us as often as she was working with us. Not such a great trade off.

Second off, It's possible that as the game went on it would become needed for her role to be made known, if she seemed to be helping the spies out. But for the time being, I don't know about you, but she certainly seemed to me like she was trying to help exile spies. What good would it have done to bring it up, while she was still helping the cits?

Unless you got killed before you told anyone. What then?
And you seem to act as if it is questionable as to whether or not she would have eventually helped the Spies, but there is no question there. We know with absolute certainty that she had to help the Spies as well as us.
Do you really think she would forgo an opportunity to accomplish one of her pro-Spy missions just because she promised to a person that she herself believed was a Spy that she would help the Citizens?

[Dane]

actually, if it was equal parts spy neutral and cit missions, and she only needed to complete like 8/12 missions or whatever, she could have just done mostly cit and neutral missions. Just saying. Also, the reveal came pretty close to exile, close enough that I had read up on what was happening a few hours before exile, didn't hear a whisper about allan besides that he was suspicious as all hell, then came back like 15 minutes before exile and was immediately told "change your vote! change your vote!" The other part is that PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR VOTES. All it would have taken was I believe 1 or 2 people switching off savannah and on to allan to exile him.

[Jenny]

Ok, this is getting ridiculous as far as Ni-Ni is concerned.

Yes, she had a third party role. So what?

Every time I see a third party role in a mafia game, the person playing the role ends up becoming the most paranoid person in the game because they feel just about everyone wants to kill them. And for good reason too, because usually their right. Most of those times when the third party role was revealed, even if it wouldn't have changed much of anything as far as town vs. mafia goes, everyone in the bloody game, town and mafia. starts going "OH NO, IT'S A THIRD PARTY ROLE. IT'S A SIGN OF THE APOCALYPSE, THE END TIMES ARE HERE. IT'S GOING TO DESTROY US ALL. DESTROY US ALL. DESTROY US ALL. DESTROY US ALL."



Fact of the matter it, sometimes it bloody doesn't matter for the time being if they are or not. Ni-Ni had a role that had absolutely no powers, and had to do a bunch of tasks to complete.

Sam has already told us that she had 12 tasks, and that she needed to do 10 of them to have a personal victory. Simple math tells us that there would then be 4 Citizen, 4 Neutral, and 4 Spy tasks. That's 8 tasks she can go through before she ever touches the spy ones, of which she would only need to do 2. She had already told me that she wanted to get the task about getting a case on a spy and exiling them with it done, specifically because it would make doing other citizen tasks easier after having some citizen credibility. Common sense says that that means she's planning on doing other citizen tasks.

However, because of being one of the big forces for getting Lexi exiled, she was worried about getting imprisoned, and so picks someone who she thinks is a spy, and thinks is fairly quiet in the game and thus will keep a secret, to claim to in hopes of being able to do the rest of her tasks in peace. Isn't even the first time that's happened either in Spies, we had someone named Chloe claim to a person they thought was a spy for the exact same reason. And also turned out to be wrong about and ended up imprisoned anyways not long afterwards.

So, if she's already done one task that helps the cits out, is hoping to use that to be able to get momentum on other cit tasks she had, and has the sole person that she's willing to claim to telling her to focus on the citizen tasks, it seems logical enough to me that, hey, she's going to work on the citizen tasks.

Considering that she was still actively trying to find reasonable suspicions and wanting to be sure that there was as much focus on exiling spies as possible, not to mention that the only person she was willing to talk about for her role I can personally guarentee isn't a spy, what bloody point would there to have been to bring up what her specific role was for everyone, and cause the whole world to do their best impersonation of "Destroy-Us-All Billy" and focusing on what she was doing over finding the remaining 6 people we need to actually worry about in the game?

Of course as soon as she got imprisoned, I knew everyone was going to start going "OH NO SHE WAS A THIRD PARTY, WE CAN NEVER TRUST ANYTHING SHE EVER DID THE WHOLE GAME NOW." I came out and said what I knew because she's gone anyways, it's not like she can be taken out a second time, it makes no sense to me that during her time in the game she was bringing up false suspicions, and hey we get a bonus of being sure about Al's power role whether claude agreed to use that power on Al or not! No pointless paranoia over every bloody thing the girl ever did, we get more information to go on, and we can move along to finding the spies.

Now if you want to tell me that revealing one of the major people helping the cits so far in the game having a third party role that could still just as easily help us anyways, cause everyone to hyperventilate over nothing and completely forget about looking for spies would have been better, I don't know what to tell you.

[Zedekiah]

I reckon 'f yer a role with no personal allegiances you will do what it takes t' survive, number one being not throwing away your "get out of being a murder victim free" card, even if nita knew who was a doc, why would she go off an' tell a spy who it is immediately, when havin a doc in your pocket make you essentially immune t' imprisonment anyhow?
Unless you think she may have given out a fake name so she could have her cake and eat it too.

[Jasmine]

To Allan: You announcing Gabe was the role, even though he is dead..was still stupid. Now the spies know this, it's posted for all to see--now they don't have to worry about the doctor saving who they want to imprison.

[Chance]

to jasmine = i think we pretty much decided that gabe wasn't the doctor anyway, didn't we? should be in the group chat somewhere.

[Jasmine]

Did he have a role, though?

[Jenny]

Jas, the whole thing about Gabe-Gabe being the doctor turned out to be an obvious message from a spy version of what Savanny was once we heard more about it.

[Jasmine]

mmk, I will be caught up later when I get online then.