United Burg Of O-Town

[Owen]

Now that I can say something other than "holy shit."

Disclaimer: I'm used to running a group of kids, so be gentle on me.

First Law of The United Burg of O-Town: Throw the team stuff out of the window.
Last round, for the Republicans at least, was a complete disaster. The tension between the new players coming in and the original Republicans made it seem like a penis measuring contest. Nobody cares what side caught more Spies, and if they do, they're losing focus. Bickering like that is counter-productive.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way... as you should all know, I've got a lot on my plate right at the moment (way over the calorie count). I welcome all of you to IM me and give your opinions, but I feel like the easiest way for me to get an overview of your thoughts and what you've done thus far is to have you all answer a set of questions.

I'd like for these answers to be sent to me through PM (that's a personal message, Zed), as I'd like to see what you all have to offer individually instead of perhaps piggy-backing ideas from each other & and because I don't want this thread to turn into a battleground.

Questions:

1. Who are your top suspects? Reasons?

2. Are there any suspects that fell off of your radar? Why?

3. What are your thoughts regarding the roles claimed thus far?

4. Not including myself (because I really don't feel like having my parade rained on) who would you have trusted most with the power of Dictator? Explain.

5. If you had a cop investigation, who would you use it on? Explain.

6. If you were in my position and were the only person to cast a vote, who would cast it for?

7. Give me a few reasons why you're not a spy.

I realize these are a bit forward, but I'm going to have to make a very informed decision in a few days time. I'd appreciate that everyone answer these, the more I know right now, the better... unless you're scum. As I said earlier, IM's are welcomed and appreciated as well. Let me know if you have any questions/concerns, but perhaps not at the moment since my head is about to explode

I'll post more things in here if they come up. Master says don't hijack this thread. Punishment will come in the form of extra laps.

PS: Congratulations on giving one of the most indecisive players last episode the biggest and most stressful power in Spies history.

[Claude]

I'll preface this by saying that, if my ability doesn't get messed up by this 'twist'(Sam has hinted that it might, but is going to explain it to me tomorrow), I'm just going to submit that you, Owen, can vote for Chance, Isaac, and (probably)Stephanie anyway.

1) Chance and Isaac are my top suspects. Chance has been all game long, for any number of reasons that you can look up in the Democrat Burg. Isaac just might be my #1 suspect now though, after the post where he agreed with what people were saying was suspicious about Themba, and then..ended up voting Jasmine(whom Themba was voting at the time). These kinds of insincere posts are almost always scum mistakes, not town ones. Plus, the entire time he was on my side, he did nothing but sit on the sidelines and try to egg people on.

2)I'm less suspicious of Tina than I was previously, because I felt that her Day 3 actions were genuine.

3)I think that both of the roles claimed could go either way, and that people(myself included) are given too much leeway because of roleclaims. If someone acts like scum, you shouldn't give them a pass, unless they are claiming a role that is overwhelmingly likely to be town.

4)I would have given it to Nita. She lead the Republicans in lynching a Spy Day 1, and was a huge force in creating action Day 3 on my side.

5)Magalie. I will just never be sure on her, because alot of her mistakes could simply just be bad play. I always want to vote her, but I also always don't(especially after Camilla and Margot got lynched under similar circumstances and both flipped town).

6)I want to say that I would listen thoughtfully to what everyone else had to say..but yeah. Unless they decided on someone that I already wanted to vote, I would just end up picking one of the people that I personally suspected(which, as stated, would currently be Isaac or Chance).

7)This is not a question that anyone should be able to answer for themself. It is up to everyone else to judge a person, not that person themself.

[Nita]

Claude hijackin the votes of the rest of the burg - both clever y serious.

[Claude]

I'm pretty sure that Sam is going to tell me that you guys can foil me if no one nominates the people that I choose anyway. I have to use this ability to be able to use the other 2 again. I wouldn't use the 'can't vote anyone' ability on Owen, of course, but, but eventually other people will regain their ability to vote, and I want to be able to hinder that if someone that I think is a Spy is able to vote again.

I've done everything that I can to show people that Chance is a Spy. If the only way to get him lynched is to make him one of the only people that are capable of being lynched, then, so be it.

[Broderick]

Have you set aside your hatred for Chance, Claude?

I think you attempting to force the votes, is rather suspicious. You do not seem to be asking what other people think, nor even care.

What happens if Chance is a citizen Claude? You would of been wasting your role the entire time on a citizen, which at this point I think is out of pure hatred rather than suspicion.

[Claude]

I figure the likelihood of him being a Citizen is right around 1%. At best. I've tried to find evidence of pro-town behavior on his part, and couldn't.

And you're right, I don't care that much. This is my role, to use as I see best fit. It's unfortunate that I'm not just the Cop or Vig, because this would have been alot simpler. But you work with what you're given.

I'm tired of Chance skating by. I mean seriously, he was made immune from Exile on Day 2. While it's possible that some Spy was just trying to frame him, even that barely makes sense. If that was what was happening, they would have just targeted me. He was made immune by another Spy(or by himself) because it was very likely that he was going to get lynched that day. There is no consistency to any of this thoughts/actions. I've had enough.

[Broderick]

And you're right, I don't care that much. This is my role, to use as I see best fit.

You are right, it is your role. What you are wrong about is your attitude that everything is your decision. If you are a citizen, then you should consult people you think are citizens, and think of your actions in terms of teamship. Because the citizens are a team trying to oust the spies. Failure and refusal to work as a team will only ensure a spy victory. The fact that you seem to refuse to acknowledge that you hate Chance and that is a factor in your decisions is rather irresponsible.

[Awohali]

I am in agreement with Broderick here, and this is an example of what I have been saying the past two episodes in terms of you wanting to force people to do what you want them to do. Your having a role that allows you to actually do that straight away has only exacerbated the problem.
The more you refuse to use your role for anything other than your own purposes, the more I doubt your citizenship. Since a great deal of people seem to suspect both you and Chance both, myself included, the best way for one of you to separate yourself from the other, since you have both done suspicious things, is to act for the good of the Citizens and do good things.

I have not seen either of you demonstrate very much interest in doing that so far.

[Chance]

didn't owen specifically say not to hijack this thread?

[Awohali]

Jul 2, 2010 13:41:02 GMT -6 Chance said:

didn't owen specifically say not to hijack this thread?

We must unite the people against this cruel dictatorship! If we are to triumph and gain our freedom, we must exercise civil disobedience for the good of our cause.

[Nita]

Hijackin again to say good luck to Owen y everybody. Get a spy while I gone, si?

[Owen]

ATTENTION!
Damn, I'm such a badass authoritarian.

Isaac, Jenny, and Stephanie are obviously all nominated for eviction Exile. Without making this too much of a democracy, I would like for all of you to post your input on the vote here or on AIM to me. Or both.

While this is my decision now, I want everything on the table. If you have a reason that I should keep one of them, tell me. If you have a reason I should lynch one of them, tell me. Anything that you feel needs to be presented to me before I make my decision, present it.

You may now get out of a bowing position and continue on.

[Gertrude]

Jul 7, 2010 1:07:56 GMT -6 Owen said:

You may now get out of a blowing* position and continue on.

Fixed.

*Returns to position*

[Claude]

Jul 7, 2010 1:07:56 GMT -6 Owen said:

ATTENTION!
Damn, I'm such a badass authoritarian.

Isaac, Jenny, and Stephanie are obviously all nominated for eviction Exile. Without making this too much of a democracy, I would like for all of you to post your input on the vote here or on AIM to me. Or both.

While this is my decision now, I want everything on the table. If you have a reason that I should keep one of them, tell me. If you have a reason I should lynch one of them, tell me. Anything that you feel needs to be presented to me before I make my decision, present it.

You may now get out of a bowing position and continue on.

Of those three, Isaac is the most deserving of being Exiled. By a long shot.

Frankly, he deserves to be Exiled based upon this post alone. That post is exploding with insincerity; there is no way a townie spends half of a post talking about why a person is scummy and then ultimately ends up taking the same voting line as that person.

But that isn't all Isaac is guilty of anyway. Let's take a look at his voting history. Episode 1, he voted me. Nothing wrong w/ that, it could have been based off of a legitimate suspicion. Day 2, he votes me again. He says very little about Margot, and his vote on me here is uninspiring, in that it was abundantly made clear by other Democrats that I was not getting lynched. So either he is a Citizen that is throwing away his vote(and it is hard to see a Citizen doing so), or he is a Spy that is just trying to blend in. Further review is probably necessary to make a good conclusion here.

Which brings us to Day 3. Day 3, Isaac makes the post that I referenced earlier, and votes Jasmine. But then, when it comes down to either Themba or Magalie, he..votes Themba. This is a further crack in the sincerity of the post I referenced above. He voted the same line as Themba initially, but ultimately ended up..voting Jasmine. The only way that this makes sense is if he just doesn't want to vote Magalie. Why he wouldn't want to vote her is difficult to say at the current moment, but nothing else makes sense.

For some more general observations/accusations against Isaac, he has largely sat on the sidelines and poked at people that were already under suspicion by others, without actually putting for much of his own effort.

And this 'vote mask' ability that was thrown up today reads to me as a 'double bluff'. The Spies used it to make it LOOK like Isaac is being framed, when in reality he is just a Spy.

[Magalie]

Jul 7, 2010 2:53:23 GMT -6 Claude said:

Which brings us to Day 3. Day 3, Isaac makes the post that I referenced earlier, and votes Jasmine. But then, when it comes down to either Themba or Magalie, he..votes Themba. This is a further crack in the sincerity of the post I referenced above. He voted the same line as Themba initially, but ultimately ended up..voting Jasmine. The only way that this makes sense is if he just doesn't want to vote Magalie. Why he wouldn't want to vote her is difficult to say at the current moment, but nothing else makes sense.

Are you making the assumption that me and Issac are together?
A lot of other people voted for themba and it would not of mattered if he had voted for me so I think that if he was a spy that he could of also been a bandwagon vote.

[Claude]

It could certainly be indicative of you being Spies together. I would like that.

But it doesn't automatically mean that. Isaac could also have just voted Themba there to go with the flow, though this is largely out of character for him.

Honestly, it's a confusing vote more than anything else..it's hard to make much sense of it from any perspective. But the fact that he voted the person that he was voting with 2 minutes prior is definitely not a point in Isaac's favor. His ultimately voting Themba also meant that he was voting the same person as Jasmine, despite trying to get her lynched.

So yeah, it really is a sticking point that he voted Themba over you. But we can't work anything out there until his alignment is known.

[Hambone]

I've said the name "Jenny" so many times in the past week that my lips are permanently locked in that position.

[Jasmine]

I think one thing to look at, Owen. Is that Stephanie seemed to be pushed into your three choices--I think that, and her being so upfront throughout(which people have noted) makes her the most citizen like of the three. IMO. I still think Isaac is a spy..but I also don't really trust Jenny after the Nita crap. Stephanie is the only one of the three, I dont think is a spy at the moment.

[Lilith]

Don't kill Steph.

I actually disagree with Claude, I almost feel like Claude is fixing the facts to fit the theory. While at exile, I was telling myself that if Isaac DOESN'T vote Themba, then he is definetely out of character and mafia. Because his alleged mindset when talking to me was that Themba and Jasmine are both scummy, but that Jasmine was scummier, but the way he explained it to me, it sounded like he actually thought Themba was scummier - the insincerity part.

What would help is if Isaac could respond... heh.

Jenny - I don't know anymore. I still find it hard to believe a mafia would reveal after Nita died that she knew about Nita. But when I read HOW Jenny revealed it, it seemed more to me like she wanted us to WIFOM it or whatever (I hate that term btw, lol). Also, when reading that Jenny knew what Nita was before the first imprisonment, that seemed way too long ago. It explains to me why Nita wasn't targetted earlier.

My initial thought when reading Jenny from old Rep thread was that she was a spy. I think I should stick with that initial read right now.

At this point, it'd be a lot easier to give my opinion if Isaac was here to discuss things. I know I told you Isaac last night, but I think I am changing my mind to a Jenny elimination.

Also - That way she talks about her suspect board like she's trying to make sure we know she is keeping a list of suspects, makes me think she might be a spy.

[Stephanie]

I obviously would prefer either Jenny or Isaac.

Over the past couple of days I have become more and more suspicious of Jenny. She has voted for me twice, and I have yet to understand why. Yesterday when we asked who she was suspicious of, all she did was post a couple of pictures. So the discussion was entirely diverted from who she suspected and why, and focused on how to interpret her pictures. Jenny has been very reluctant to talk about her suspects or her reasoning for the entire game. At first she just redirected every conversation to Zeke. What do you think about ABC, Jenny? Not as suspicious as Zeke.

I think Jenny felt that she had to come forward with the Nita claim because she was worried that Nita might have told someone else. Nita was looking for a spy and if Jenny was actually able to convince Nita that she was cit, then Nita might have looked elsewhere. Nita clearly lied to Jenny about other things, the number of tasks, the number of exiles she needed to survive. So Jenny would probably be worried that someone else knew, and she needed to come forward and be able to put her own spin on events.

I am still trying to get my head around the voting obfuscation, but keep thinking that it was somehow hiding a vote for me, and that would point to my consistent voters: Dane, Larry, and Jenny, conspiring with the unknown hider.

[Broderick]

While Stephanie is my top suspect out of the three, I doubt you would choose her.
which would leave it between Jenny and Isaac.
I say Jenny. Isaac isn't here to defend himself, and think it in poor taste to Exile a guy who is away with family issues.

[Claude]

Isaac isn't here to defend himself, and think it in poor taste to Exile a guy who is away with family issues.

With Isaac having flipped Spy, this statement comes across as extremely scummy. If someone is suspicious, they are suspicious. They did something to get themselves there, if family events prevent them from being around(nevermind that Isaac had plenty of other chances to defend himself), that is unfortunate, but it doesn't dictate keeping someone alive.

Also noteworthy is that you stated you would have preferred voting either of the other 2 people, but Isaac got lynched and..flipped Spy.

This reflects very poorly on Broderick, and definitely makes him a Second Tier Suspect to me, at this point.

[Broderick]

A) That statement had nothing to do with the guys alignment. Having lost my own father recently, I know the pain. I also know the importance of distractions for the brain, of doing something as a way to not dwell on what happened - a way to cope.

B) Had the guy flipped citizen, this discussion wouldn't be happening.

[Lilith]

I disagree that the statement comes across as VERY SCUMMY. But I do agree with Claude in the sense that not voting someone because they can't be here is not a reason not to vote them (I think that made sense?). If that person happens to be the dictator's top suspect, then it is perfectly fine to send them away.

[Dane]

"I am still trying to get my head around the voting obfuscation, but keep thinking that it was somehow hiding a vote for me, and that would point to my consistent voters: Dane, Larry, and Jenny, conspiring with the unknown hider. "
My votes for you are always public stephanie, and always pre-announced