On Lawrence

[Tina]

For the most part, there is little to go on for him. A majority of what I found from the dem side came from his exile 2 thoughts thread, which is a point that I will wait until later to tackle. For a quick summary of what his actions were episode one though: Voted Claude. Expressed suspicion of just Claude, again.

Now, a big reason that he voted for Claude was ‘Trying to control him’. When I asked what this meant, I got the following.

spies8lawrence (3:17:57 PM): It doesn't have to be. But, the way I see it, those who most want to be the ones in control are the spies.

He goes on to talk about how being a big figure in group chats makes someone very suspect as they are trying to control opinions. He said he talked breifly with Claude, although I am not sure what suspicions he really brought up. The entirety of his case was based on Claude trying to convince him of other things, as opposed to everything else that was discussed about Claude for the first exile.

Now for the second exile, stuff changed. First we have Claude being a non vote due to:

spies8lawrence (3:44:40 PM): It was primarily due to his role. It sounded cit to me, and his primary foe confirmed its use.
spies8lawrence (3:45:35 PM): It was enough for me to drop him off top suspect list and just to watch carefully list

What is now different though is who falls into the second slot for him. I can not believe that no one else is "dominating in group chats and trying to convince him of stuff" at this point. Lawrence suddenly gets interested in lurking players though, which in its own is amazingly hyporitical. I think there are under five lines from Law that I saw in all dem logs that were not during a point where it was just him and another.

Jumping ahead to his round two suspicion thread, he touches on a few people. Brod is brought up as gut, but dropped. Gertrude is brought up quite a bit, but then dropped dur to believing her response. Chance/Claude gets entirely ignored due to the immunity. Then we have an interesting move, the next three people are all brought up as lurkers, specifically Margot and Magalie for lurking in large chats. This is exasperated by the fact that Law basically has lurked through all group chats as well, yet he holds being present in only 3/4 chats as a tell.

Magalie is dropped as a vote due to emotions getting in the way. Jasmine is pushed to second due to putting forth more effort dispite "This case is really based on the utter lack of anything. Nowhere did I find any real pushes, or even lukewarm suspicions."

This leaves Margot, whos case was saying he does nothing, and listing all of her public posts.

Margot is worried about being "misinterpreted"; she voted Camilla over Claude due to effort ........ I will be voting Margot over Jasmine for one primary reason--Jasmine at least seems to have a prsence, small and flufft as it may be

That was his reasoning for the second exile, quite a change from "the people dominating the game are spies". This change never seemed to have been explained.

This also is a hypocritical vote. Voting Margot over Jasmine for trying, while a point against Margot is that she voted Camilla over Claude for effort, aka trying.

spies8lawrence (3:32:19 PM): And yes, at that time, it was one of my primary reasons. Despite knowing it was hypocritical of me. But when choosing between two potential spies with little evidence, you take what you can get.

So he knows what he did, but there is something left to be desired I think. If you are attacking someone for using a tell, it should at least mean that it is a bad tell, not something you should use yourself. I think this boils down to him, not going out and talking to anyone though.

For his current suspicions though is when things start getting interesting

spies8tina (3:58:17 PM): What are your thoughts on people on this side, and the ones who are coming over with you?
spies8lawrence (3:58:46 PM): Those comingwith me--Well, I've got a gut spy read on Brody, but nothing firm to back it up. Isaac I've promised to do aan investigation on, which'll take me a awhile, so I probably won't start unitl after imp. Jasmine is probably most suspicious of them, due to her ignoring presented evidence, but nothing really damning. Lilith I've got nothing.
spies8lawrence (3:59:33 PM): Those here, I'm thing of investigating Dane, Themba, zSteph, Zed. And see what else I can pick up while I'm doing that.

For the New-Reps it breaks down to
Brod- gut spy, but no evidence
Isaac - ???? will look at.
Lil - Nothing
Jasmine - Most suspicious, nothing on her.

That breaks down into four fence sit to nothing reads quite quickly. He also jumps on the three biggest discussed (Themba, Steph, Zek) from old-reps, and throws in Dane who is a big name as well.

Interestingly enough he throws in the fact that he wants to vote for Magalie at this point. Which is slightly odd given that he appeared to have Jasmine abover her as a suspect last exile, dismissing everything on her because feelings might be getting in the way.

When I push for more of a clear suspect, we get:

spies8lawrence (4:04:00 PM): But if I had to vote right this minute, I'd probably go with either Isaac or Themba. But I would like to look up both of them before committing to anything.

Now, about five mintues prior, he has basically admitting to having no idea about isaac in any way. Jasmine, who he almost voted at the previous exile, had been pushing a case on him, and if realized the support it had, voted him. Claude who he voted at the first exile and remains on his watch list also voted him.

This means that he has gone from having what looked like a top suspect of Jas to voting the player who he claims to be a lurker and know nothing about who out of the three people who has voted for them, two have been spy picks of him.

Isaac being his top pick just makes no sense. Why him, over Brod (who is explained as a gut read) or Jasmine (who almost got your last vote, and is the 'most spylike') needs to be explained.

So Lawrence has some explaining to do. Lets hear it.

[Lawrence]

Oh my god, you suck. Or something. No, really, here are my responses.

For the most part, there is little to go on for him. A majority of what I found from the dem side came from his exile 2 thoughts thread, which is a point that I will wait until later to tackle. For a quick summary of what his actions were episode one though: Voted Claude. Expressed suspicion of just Claude, again.

Now, a big reason that he voted for Claude was ‘Trying to control him’. When I asked what this meant, I got the following.

spies8lawrence (3:17:57 PM): It doesn't have to be. But, the way I see it, those who most want to be the ones in control are the spies.

For starters, I also suspected Chance. You can see this in the 'homegirl got questions' thread. But yes, much of the causes of my suspicions were the fact that Claude seemed to be in complete control, dominating threads and chat alike. Yes, it could have just been an overwhelming personality, but it didn't seem likely to me at the time.

And this will seem like an excuse (and it kind of is), but I was sick for much of episode 1. I was playing catch-up, so forgive me for taking what I saw and running with it.

Now for the second exile, stuff changed. First we have Claude being a non vote due to:

spies8lawrence (3:44:40 PM): It was primarily due to his role. It sounded cit to me, and his primary foe confirmed its use.
spies8lawrence (3:45:35 PM): It was enough for me to drop him off top suspect list and just to watch carefully list

What is now different though is who falls into the second slot for him. I can not believe that no one else is "dominating in group chats and trying to convince him of stuff" at this point. Lawrence suddenly gets interested in lurking players though, which in its own is amazingly hyporitical. I think there are under five lines from Law that I saw in all dem logs that were not during a point where it was just him and another.

Claude toned down, didn't seem to be dominating. And no, nobody else jumped into such a dominating persona to me. Realize that exile 1, it seemed like probably 85-90% of conversation involved Claude in some way. Usually based around who he was suspecting and pushing at the time. This did not happen in episode 2; others stepped forward, Chance was dropped as a possible exile. Those combined to make it much more even-keel.

Without someone dominating, and with my backing off suspicions of Claude, I had to find other suspects. So, I hunted.

Jumping ahead to his round two suspicion thread, he touches on a few people. Brod is brought up as gut, but dropped. Gertrude is brought up quite a bit, but then dropped dur to believing her response. Chance/Claude gets entirely ignored due to the immunity. Then we have an interesting move, the next three people are all brought up as lurkers, specifically Margot and Magalie for lurking in large chats. This is exasperated by the fact that Law basically has lurked through all group chats as well, yet he holds being present in only 3/4 chats as a tell.

Actually, I think it was 1 in 4, not 3 in 4. And that's less of a tell and more of a complete lack of anything to find. But perhaps my wording was poor. I studied people that I already had some suspicions on. The fact that they were lurking had nothing to do with why I studied them, but it did prevent me from finding out more about them.

That was his reasoning for the second exile, quite a change from "the people dominating the game are spies". This change never seemed to have been explained.

This also is a hypocritical vote. Voting Margot over Jasmine for trying, while a point against Margot is that she voted Camilla over Claude for effort, aka trying.

spies8lawrence (3:32:19 PM): And yes, at that time, it was one of my primary reasons. Despite knowing it was hypocritical of me. But when choosing between two potential spies with little evidence, you take what you can get.

So he knows what he did, but there is something left to be desired I think. If you are attacking someone for using a tell, it should at least mean that it is a bad tell, not something you should use yourself. I think this boils down to him, not going out and talking to anyone though.

I have agreed this is a good point against me. I don't really know what else to say here. I'm sorry?

That breaks down into four fence sit to nothing reads quite quickly. He also jumps on the three biggest discussed (Themba, Steph, Zek) from old-reps, and throws in Dane who is a big name as well.

You asked me my opinion. I've had little interaction with Lilith at all. Isaac I hadn't really looked at yet. Broderick was a gut feeling only, and Jasmine had a little proof (which she has since explained somewhat well). You asked opinion, you got opinion. I'm not going to come out and say "Oh, Brody's definitely a spy" when I have no proof to back it up. You'd see that as scummy too, am I right?

As for the old-reps, I'd barely been following this side. You asked me who I was looking at, and you expect me to pick up names that aren't the common suspicions?

Interestingly enough he throws in the fact that he wants to vote for Magalie at this point. Which is slightly odd given that he appeared to have Jasmine abover her as a suspect last exile, dismissing everything on her because feelings might be getting in the way.

Yes, but that changed towards the end of that day. I was actually discussing with Awohali, considering switching to Magalie at that point. I ended up second guessing my second guessing and going with first instinct. I was wrong.

When I push for more of a clear suspect, we get:

spies8lawrence (4:04:00 PM): But if I had to vote right this minute, I'd probably go with either Isaac or Themba. But I would like to look up both of them before committing to anything.

Now, about five mintues prior, he has basically admitting to having no idea about isaac in any way. Jasmine, who he almost voted at the previous exile, had been pushing a case on him, and if realized the support it had, voted him. Claude who he voted at the first exile and remains on his watch list also voted him.

This means that he has gone from having what looked like a top suspect of Jas to voting the player who he claims to be a lurker and know nothing about who out of the three people who has voted for them, two have been spy picks of him.

Isaac being his top pick just makes no sense. Why him, over Brod (who is explained as a gut read) or Jasmine (who almost got your last vote, and is the 'most spylike') needs to be explained.

Yes, I had nothing at all on Isaac or Themba. You're right. But I had studied both Jasmine and Brody, and while Jasmine had some suspicious moments, it wasn't enough to make a solid decision on. You give me a deadline, I'm going to try to find a spy. Even if that means I have to rely on other people's intuitions. I don't think that's a bad thing, personally. But what it came across to me as was "here's two people you kind of know (one of whom is suspected by another), one you think just maybe has been looking bad, three people others say are looking bad, and three others that have drawn no suspicion. Who's your vote?" It's a crap shoot, and I like having time to analyze and figure things out. I'm just not a spontaneous person.



I hope that answers those questions.

[Dane]

" You asked me who I was looking at, and you expect me to pick up names that aren't the common suspicions?"

Since when the fuck am I a common suspicion?

[Themba]

And this will seem like an excuse (and it kind of is), but I was sick for much of episode 1. I was playing catch-up, so forgive me for taking what I saw and running with it.

Fair enough if you're sick, but I am curious as to how you gathered your information after you got better. From what I can tell, most of your suspicions posted have been the result of the players talking either on group AIM chats, or in different threads. I am not sure I can locate any posts from yourself where you've actually IM'd someone off your own bat to question them directly. Am I wrong? And if I am right, why is this?

Without someone dominating, and with my backing off suspicions of Claude, I had to find other suspects. So, I hunted.

As per above. How did you hunt exactly?

Actually, I think it was 1 in 4, not 3 in 4. And that's less of a tell and more of a complete lack of anything to find. But perhaps my wording was poor. I studied people that I already had some suspicions on. The fact that they were lurking had nothing to do with why I studied them, but it did prevent me from finding out more about them.

And again. If something's preventing you from finding out more about them, wouldn't you just send them an IM / PM to ask some questions?

As for the old-reps, I'd barely been following this side. You asked me who I was looking at, and you expect me to pick up names that aren't the common suspicions?

Yes. Just because they're common doesn't mean they're correct.

[Lawrence]

Dane-you were pushed for a bit ep 1. Enough to catch my eye, anyway.

Themba-
I do much of my hunting by scouring threads. I've spent houres rereading chat logs and looking for clues. IMing others directly? Seems my schedule disappoints. I've only got a couple hour usually, if that, and when people aren't on, they aren't on. And I agree with your last point-but common suspicions are a good place to start. And that's what it was, a start.