Grab Bag Of Stuff

[Tina]

Greetings and Salutations all! It is time to shape up a bit, we are moving through the entire day very sluggishly compared to what we did the first day. At this point the time has come to remedy this.

I will start with a very important point that some people have failed to notice. Kiara is going to have self-votes again at this exile unless there is a replacement. According to the rules, she will almost be forced out from this alone. If we want to actually be able to exile, we need to band together a bit. Given that I, and almost every person I talk to, believes that Kiara is a citizen, this is doubly important to deal with.

That got resolved during typing this. Yay.

On to some points and questions. If I do not ask you any questions here, assume the generic "We are exlining in five minutes, who are you voting?" one.

Stephanie

1) I have a hard time following what you did regarding Alexei.

You were the first person I mentioned him to and I had this response

spies8stephanie (6:34:37 PM): maybe alex's just trying to be diplomatic when he was he believes him??
spies8tina (6:35:18 PM): I am all for civility. This just seems like he has set himself up to vote Zek or vote someone else
spies8stephanie (6:36:02 PM): yea, jenny is the one who originally asked the question
spies8stephanie (6:36:13 PM): and alex seems like an opportunist
spies8stephanie (6:36:33 PM): trying to find a bandwagon
....
spies8stephanie (6:41:35 PM): but i'm thinking zeke does look spyish
spies8stephanie (6:41:48 PM): because it looks to me like he lied in there somewhere

You continually say that this was showing that you suspected Alexei quite a bit, I will not get into my slight disagreement with that too much, but agreing with me then saying "But Zek, he looks like a spy" shows that it was not strong agreement.


spies8stephanie (11:35:00 PM): i remember talking to someone on sat night about it looked like alex was going to be exiled, and that would give us a lot of info, and that i would reconsider my dane suspicions in light of it

This talk with whoever was the next I ever heard of you thinking Alexei was a spy. When I brough Alexei up the day after the inital log, you appeared genually surprized I thought he was a spy.

There is also the later comments of you liking a Alexei case (again, a surprise to me) but thinking he was town for voting with you.

2) Your views on Zek and Savannah

Both of these are confusing to me. Last night you said Zek was "Prob Town" in this.

spies8stephanie (9:56:30 PM): my thoughts are that dane and Z were cleared by alex
spies8stephanie (11:13:19 PM): cleared for now, but on the watch list

I am not sure still what you think of him, or for that extent Dane since he had the same categorization as Zek (cleared by alex). The same applies to Savannah who you apparently are now voting (on watch list).

3) Rondak and Owen suspicions.

I am not sure you ever have done an indepth explaination of either of these two. Have you talked with them and if so, what has that changed? Can you give a quick rundown of your thoughts on each regardless?

Savannah

1) Deflection to Zek

I do not have many logs with you, but this was one thing that did come up.

spies8savannah (11:18:49 AM): im leaning toward zed. talking to alexei i kind of just think he was caught in the heat. the one thing i dont like is he's had 3 suspects in the past two days.

You give a nod to the case, concentrating on a point that no one is pushing as strong, and start talking about Zek again.

spies8tina (11:23:29 AM): Well, you just said that Alexei got caught up in the heat too. What differs there?
spies8tina (11:23:48 AM): He also is having somewhat of a hard time keeping a timeline straight.
spies8savannah (11:23:53 AM): alexei was just confused in the chat i think.
spies8savannah (11:24:08 AM): well i did ask him for dates and i think they check out

Again, I try and work Alexei back into the topic, and you cite that his situation is different then the one that Zek got caught up in.

spies8savannah (11:27:46 AM): he said he was confused. however i dont think he would intentionally leave out the part at X:25 because obviously there is record of him saying it
spies8savannah (11:27:59 AM): and it wasnt that long before.

When I point out an inconsistnacy of his suspicion of Zek, again it is cast aside stating that it was not a long time period in between. The short time period is exactly what makes it important, there was no reason for a suspicion change. If it was 50 minutes instead of 5 minutes a suspicion shift would have been more understandable.

I went on to explain that there was nothing productive in the chat, and you shift the topic right back to Zek being a spy. You are freaking good at that I have to admit, looking over past logs you did this so many times to me without me ever noticing untill after the fact.

2) I think Gabe touches on most other things I think about, will consider a response there sufficient.

3) One more thing! You still think Zek is the most suspicious? If not what has changed?

Rondak

1) Vauge connection to Alexei case.

I know we never talked too much, but I have a hard time following your thought process on the Alexei wagon. You say that you had a conversation with him that made you think he was a spy, but I do not remember ever seeing that, or even hearing about it untill super late in the day. Can you shed some light on this topic for me?

2) Zek and Alexei

When I was talking with you before the Alexei exile, you mentioned that you thought if Alexei was a spy, it made Zek a fairly possible spy as well. Do you still think this? I have not seen anyone but Jenny and earlier Savannah act on this so far.

Jenny

1) Silence on Suspicion Front

I see you around a whole lot, but one thing that I rarely see is you pushing someone you are suspicious of. When someone is as well acclimated to the game as you are, that is concerning. Where are you right now on some people? Last I heard you were voting for Zek for the same reasons as exile 1. Thoughts on Savannah, Themba and Steph?

Allan

1) Blank Slate

I do not know anything about you. We are about a week into this and I am not happy at all to be in that situation. I know you have been taking a whole lot of flack for not being around and had that spazz out, but can I get some suspicions from you?

I did not know what you thought of Alexei, or anyone else, last time, and I do not know what you think of anyone this time. Even if you are not going to be online at the same time as I am, can you make a post like this stating your opinions on the game and on players? It would be a great step in the direction of not having people asking where you are at any given point.

Themba

1) Distinguishing Day One

I brought up Dane, Alexei and Zek to you. Your responses on them were "probable spy, possible spy, possible spy". By the end of that chat, you were starting to visable change to an Alexei vote, but you never really closed any doors. Did you continue to think all three to be possible spies throughout the day or did any of them change to citizen? I ask as you at one point voted all three.

2) Looking Silly

spies8themba (9:39:33 PM): well you could never be 100% sure it was a give up can you? you can hope, but you can't know until he's out of the game. if he flipped cit, maybe i would've looked silly for suggesting he did give up.

This was an odditiy to me. Even with some explaining I never quite got it. You seem like you are saying that you would not suggest this for fear of backlash if you were not sure of his alignment, you only have him barely leaning to a vote over Zek however.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

All for now. I might have more up on this later but there is a whole lot of questions to be answered and stuff to be commented on here. Remember if I did not specifically address you - Five minutes to exile, who are you voting?

[Savannah]

Hey Tina! Okay, time to answer your questions!


1) Deflection to Zek

I do not have many logs with you, but this was one thing that did come up.

spies8savannah (11:18:49 AM): im leaning toward zed. talking to alexei i kind of just think he was caught in the heat. the one thing i dont like is he's had 3 suspects in the past two days.

You give a nod to the case, concentrating on a point that no one is pushing as strong, and start talking about Zek again.

spies8tina (11:23:29 AM): Well, you just said that Alexei got caught up in the heat too. What differs there?
spies8tina (11:23:48 AM): He also is having somewhat of a hard time keeping a timeline straight.
spies8savannah (11:23:53 AM): alexei was just confused in the chat i think.
spies8savannah (11:24:08 AM): well i did ask him for dates and i think they check out

Again, I try and work Alexei back into the topic, and you cite that his situation is different then the one that Zek got caught up in.

spies8savannah (11:27:46 AM): he said he was confused. however i dont think he would intentionally leave out the part at X:25 because obviously there is record of him saying it
spies8savannah (11:27:59 AM): and it wasnt that long before.

When I point out an inconsistnacy of his suspicion of Zek, again it is cast aside stating that it was not a long time period in between. The short time period is exactly what makes it important, there was no reason for a suspicion change. If it was 50 minutes instead of 5 minutes a suspicion shift would have been more understandable.

I went on to explain that there was nothing productive in the chat, and you shift the topic right back to Zek being a spy. You are freaking good at that I have to admit, looking over past logs you did this so many times to me without me ever noticing untill after the fact.

Honestly, I didn't realize I was doing this, but if anything it is just because Zek was my prime suspect at the time. Just as you were trying to shift things to Alexei, because he was your top suspect, I was doing the same thing. At the time all I really was thinking was: Zek spy, Zek spy, Zek spy, so that is what kept coming to mind.

2) I think Gabe touches on most other things I think about, will consider a response there sufficient.

3) One more thing! You still think Zek is the most suspicious? If not what has changed?

I can't say I think Zek is the most suspicious. Do I think his actions are very suspicious? Yes. Is the most suspicious person? I'm not sure. I was talking to Nita earlier and tell her that I have alot of suspects. Zek, for obvious reasons. Themba, for her quick switches from Dane to Alexei to Zek as well as lackluster suspicions on her suspects. Stephanie, for her suspicions on both Owen and Rondak. Even Jenny is starting to come up on my radar, as sometimes it is hard to get suspicions and thoughts out of her, even though she seems to be super active. So again, the question was is Zek the most suspicious? I think the above mentioned are a suspicious in their own way. I will say I will not be as quick to vote for him as I was last round.

Hope that helps clears things up!

[Bizarrondak]

Greetings.

Here is the aforementioned part of the chat log which you misplaced.

20:21] spies8rondak: *nods*
[20:21] spies8rondak: We were discussing the Zed situation a few nights ago.
[20:22] spies8rondak: Am I allowed to copy and paste conversations, sirs and lasses?
[20:22] spies8tina: Parts of it. Not the whole thing.
[20:22] spies8rondak: *nods*
[20:23] spies8rondak: Well, at the time, I was not aware of a difference between roles and allegiances.
[20:23] spies8jenny: Hold on.
[20:23] spies8jenny: Was this in the public chat?
[20:23] spies8rondak: Since Zed's story said that he did not talk individually after roles were given out, I was assuming he meant alignments.
[20:23] spies8rondak: No, lass, it was a conversation between Alexei and I.
[20:23] spies8jenny: If it was a private one, we're only supposed to do a few lines from a private chat.
[20:23] spies8rondak: *nods* I'll do my best to summarize and then post a few lines.
[20:24] spies8jenny: Lemme grab something fast.
[20:24] spies8rondak: I'll be patient, lass.
[20:24] spies8jenny: spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?bo....splay&thread=72
[20:24] spies8rondak: 4-8 lines of chat sounds reasonable, then.
[20:25] spies8rondak: Alexei, then, told me this.
[20:25] spies8rondak: spies8alexei (5:33:08 PM):I don't even know if I was on when the roles were given out. spies8rondak (5:33:47 PM):I'm certain I was. Everyone announced that they received their roles in the chat. spies8alexei (5:34:11 PM):ah spies8alexei (5:34:24 PM):I was there for allegiances, but I don't think for roles
[20:25] spies8rondak: Then, he appeard to backtrack. I asked him if roles and allegiances were the same.
[20:26] spies8rondak: spies8alexei (5:34:52 PM):not necessarily spies8alexei (5:35:02 PM):not in the mafias I usually play, anyway spies8alexei (5:35:12 PM):they might be in this, I'm not sure\ spies8rondak (5:35:41 PM):Well, roles must exist if Jenny's story is correct, right?
[20:26] spies8rondak: It is not much.
[20:26] spies8rondak: But it seemed rather odd to me, how he would backtrack the lack of roles after telling me there was a distinct difference.

This chat occurred after the Alexei vote became a possibility, however, I did share this suspicion with Owen before Alexei's name really became a distinct possibility. Many people failed to see the suspicion in this log, but it really just rubbed me the wrong way. So, when the anagram alliance posted the Alexei case, I was able to act on my own suspicion as well as follow the solid leads presented to us there.

--

Concerning the Zed/Alexei situation.

At first, I thought that Zed was a Spy as well as Alexei, simply because of the fence-sitting Alexei did regarding Zed at first. If Zed was really a citizen, a Spy should have been more certain than Alexei was at first, I believe.

Admittedly, most of my suspicion from Zed came from the second night chat where he was, frankly, all over the place. And, since I learned intelligence and competence is not a prequisite for this adventure of Spies, I thought that he very well may be one now.

Now, after discussing it further, particularly with Nita, I am unsure of Zed's alignment. Although his initial actions were idiotic, he appears to have made up with it a bit. And, Alexei certainly pushed for Zed as he became more and more in danger. Therefore, while Zed is suspicious, I would not say that the exile of Alexei as a Spy landed him squarely in the Spy zone at all.

Farewell, Let me know if you have any questions.

[Themba]

Jun 23, 2010 19:36:29 GMT -6 Tina said:

Themba

1) Distinguishing Day One

I brought up Dane, Alexei and Zek to you. Your responses on them were "probable spy, possible spy, possible spy". By the end of that chat, you were starting to visable change to an Alexei vote, but you never really closed any doors. Did you continue to think all three to be possible spies throughout the day or did any of them change to citizen? I ask as you at one point voted all three.

2) Looking Silly

spies8themba (9:39:33 PM): well you could never be 100% sure it was a give up can you? you can hope, but you can't know until he's out of the game. if he flipped cit, maybe i would've looked silly for suggesting he did give up.

This was an odditiy to me. Even with some explaining I never quite got it. You seem like you are saying that you would not suggest this for fear of backlash if you were not sure of his alignment, you only have him barely leaning to a vote over Zek however.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

1) Dane definitely looked more like a Citizen to me after the whole Alexei grilling. We both spoke on IM's pretty much saying the case on Alexei was looking stronger and that we were taking our votes off of eachother and onto Alexei. So that day, Dane definitely did look less Spy-like by the end of it. Having said that of course, I wouldn't close the door on anyone yet.

2) Yeah, whenever I say something kinda "out there" there's always a slight fear that I'll look stupid. But I'll say it anyway, because that's how I roll. I would never not say something for fear of backlash - I'll still say it. I have nothing to hide. And I don't mind coming across a little silly now and then.

[Hambone]

All for now. I might have more up on this later but there is a whole lot of questions to be answered and stuff to be commented on here. Remember if I did not specifically address you - Five minutes to exile, who are you voting?

Themba, for the reasons I posted in my case on her. Right now I suspect her the most out of everyone, with Jenny at #2 I think.