Vote Tallies

[Cory]

We wage war to create peace. Then demand Democracy so It'll never be lost.
Arthur Tugman

Let's use this thread to document our votes to prevent any sly maneuvering on the part of the Spies.

Right now I am voting nobody. I will post here when that changes.

[Camilla]

Currently, idk who I'm voting for. I guess that counts as No One? idk.

[Lawrence]

Well, may as well post the first real vote. Certainly not firm, but right now I am putting my vote down on Claude. Reasons? He's pushing Cory for what seems like no real reason to me, and seems to be trying to control in my opinion. I am certainly open to change, but for now, that's where I stand.

[Cinnamyn]

rite now my vote b on margot. dis' y:

margot wuz here 4 da original chat which got uz started lookin' 4 da spiez. in dis chat, she sed nothin'. she haz since provided no suspishins, no readz, no posts except 4 dis:

Jun 18, 2010 17:02:43 GMT -6 Margot said:

I was just worried that if I said something, it would be misinterpreted, especially since it was a conversation and topic I wasn't familiar with at all.

i think dis b really shady. furst off, if errybody wuz afraid 2 say sumthing bcuz they wuz afeard of bein' misinterpritted den we wudnt get anywhere. dis seemz lyke a louzy excuse for margot 2 get by without sayin' anythin'. i realize dat she didnt no nothin' bout it, but neitha did i, but i wuz searchin 4 a spy, so i got my azz involved insted of making sexual jokez.

da difrence between sum1 lyke margot n' sum1 lyke magalie o' awohali iz dat margot haz chosen not 2 add her 2 sense, both now and in da chat. magalie n' awohali wuz not present, so while sdey haznt made a definitive stanz yet eitha, i feel dat margot haz no excuse. wen i wuz talkin' 2 margot 4 a brief secund during da chat dis b wut she sed:

spies8margot: (10:49:41 PM)it just seems weird to me, i don't know. since it's day two and i don't think there's that much information, you know?

if sum1 haz a suspishin..i want dem 2 voice it whether itz day 2 o' day 22. i feel dat discouragin' ppl frum doing so iz anti-cit and she wuz awfully quick 2 disregard anything claude had 2 say jus' bcuz it wuz so early.

~~~

my 2nd choice b chance. dis iz bcuz of da hesaid shesaid dat haz been pritty much cleared up, and not wut wuz at da center of da hesaid shesaid..but dat dat's really all chance contributed 2 da conversashun. it seemed lyke he wuz da 1 alwayz bringin' up otha pplz thoughts without givin' hiz own. hiz constant menshin of mary had me real suspishis of her until it all got cleared up. in dis situation i find it shady dat he put wurds in otha pplz mouths without givin' input hisself. da only tymes he sed hiz own opinion wuz wen we wuz talkin' bout whether o' not cory wuz rude 2 claude and about meta. it luked lyke he wuz helpful at furst glance,,but realy he aint.

i also find hiz answer to my queschin bout voting sum1 who aint around 2 b contradictary, and hiz quick switch frum suspectin' magalie n' broderick 2 cory n' claude don't sit well wit' me.

[Claude]

I officially Vote Camilla. I don't have the entire chat excerpt, but I expect someone will post it, and I will illustrate why I am voting her at that point.

I am willing to stake my life(accept Exile tomorrow) on her being a Spy.

[Camilla]

Your life obviously doesn't mean much to you.

I'll be voting Claude at this exile. For pretty much the same reasons as Lawrence, as well as the various contradictions he makes, and for his extremely flawed reasoning (in my opinion.)

[Cory]

My vote has been on Margot since earlier this afternoon. A preliminary safe-vote to make sure I don't not vote. I also don't like her lack of presence, despite being around.

I am probably not voting Claude, pending new developments. I've explained this to several people over the past two days. The ideal play for a Spy is essentially the polar opposite of what he has done so far. He stuck his neck out and went after me with arguments void of reason. I was no threat to him at the time. He dug his heels in deep. He's been beefing with Chance and Camilla, relentless in his suspicions.

These things simply scream dumb, stubborn Citizen rather than ballsy, reckless Spy.

I had considered voting Chance earlier this week, but never got beyond bad vibes for my reason. I actually like that he was looking into the Awohali situation earlier despite being incorrect in his reasons for being suspicious.

[Isaac]

Ok, so time to make this official. This in no way means I’m sticking with this vote, but for now my vote is Claude. Ever since the game began I’ve had a hard time trying to determine if I think he’s citizen or spy and there are just too many things in my mind pointing towards spy at this point.

First off there is the certainty in which he’s claimed to think several people are spies:

spies8claude 3:24 pm
I think Tina and Cory are both spies, yes.



spies8camilla (6:14:52 PM):and like i said, you clearly do not value your own life much
spies8claude (6:15:02 PM):No, I do. I just am that confident that you're a Spy.

Then there is making a statement like this:

spies8claude (6:16:10 PM):And I didn't need to speak with you for even an hour to be sure, it took about 5 minutes.

Or this:

spies8claude (6:17:42 PM):In a mafia game once, I caught a spy based off of one post. His/Her very first post of the game.
spies8camilla (6:18:01 PM):thats nice
spies8mary (6:18:02 PM):Can you explain?
spies8claude (6:18:05 PM):I ran into the same things I am running into here, but I persevered, and was right.

Not only do I find it in poor taste to state you think so many people are spies day 1, but that it appears because you were able to do it once before that it may work the same way here. Day one is full of guess work and getting to know people. Stating your theory is fine but saying I think all these people are all spies is quite a reach with so little to go on.

Second, he constantly misrepresents what others have said or do say in their chats. Whether intentionally or on accident, and until you are actually called out on it, you accept it as fact.

spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=dems&action=display&thread=313

or

spies8claude (6:08:04 PM):You called me an idiot multiple times, as well as calling me delusional.
spies8camilla (6:08:20 PM):i called you an idiot precisely once spies8claude (6:08:23 PM):Twice.

It was in fact once and it only happened like 10 minutes before but already in his mind he’s convinced he’s right. As for the above link I’m not even going to get into that, but it was the whole Cory vs. Claude thing because “he said, she said, someone heard this” and it was all blown out of whack. It just seems that once Claude decides or make his mind up on something, it’s the truth until proven otherwise and with all of us trying to figure everything out from chats and talking to one another it leads to a lot of confusion.

Third and finally….for now anyway. I absolutely hate, HATE the argument, “If Person A isn’t mafia then you can lynch me tomorrow”. :


spies8claude (6:12:58 PM):The part where I offered myself up to be Exiled if she flips Citizen is a great part of that tactic, I guess.
spies8claude (6:13:11 PM):If you're going to make accusations against me, at least stick to ones that make sense.
spies8chance (6:13:23 PM):claude, also, you do realize that saying you'll let yourself be exiled means a whole lot of nothing, right?
spies8camilla (6:13:23 PM):and if a do flip citizen, you'll be taking that comment back. spies8claude (6:13:29 PM):No.
spies8claude (6:13:32 PM):I will not take it back.
spies8claude (6:13:42 PM):I like how you said 'if' there, also. spies8claude (6:13:44 PM):Not 'when'
spies8chance (6:13:53 PM):how pro-town is that, claude?
spies8camilla (6:13:57 PM):i enjoy how you tell me that im giving up, but if im exiled and flip citizen, you will essentially be giving up
spies8chance (6:13:58 PM):answer: not very.
spies8claude (6:14:07 PM):Sometimes, you just have to be all-in to convince people. spies8chance (6:14:23 PM):'oh, exile camilla and if she's not a spy you can lynch me... but surprise i'm not a spy either so you just got rid of two citizens, yay.'
spies8claude (6:14:35 PM):I'm willing to take that chance with my life. spies8chance (6:14:41 PM):what happened to 'a citizen never gives up'? spies8camilla (6:14:52 PM):and like i said, you clearly do not value your own life much spies8claude (6:14:55 PM):I'd rather be a man of my word.

This just screws the rest of us in the game, especially only after day one. No self respecting citizen or spy will bet it all like that on such a lousy hunch. You are the one pushing this so hard with so much confidence for day one that it floors me because as far as I can see no one else in the game is this adamant about who spies and citizens are other then you and I still have yet to see any damning proof towards anyone else that would make me think otherwise. This thinking is reckless and we lose as a whole, especially later in the game with fewer players. The last thing we’ll need is someone like you going off half-cocked because you have a gut feeling or something and blowing it for everyone.

So yes, there it is. My vote could still change but I’m currently most suspicious of you.

[Chance]

as a precaution to make sure i don't accidentally no-vote, i'm putting my vote on claude for the reasons i've expressed in the 'suspicions' thread. my second option is magalie.

[Awohali]

To get this out there early, if by the time I need to vote tomorrow, no suspect has emerged to be particularly greater than anyone else, I will be voting for either the least helpful or most harmful of the even pool of suspects. In my mind, this is the next rung on the ladder when deciding how to make a vote as productive as possible.
I hope that a decent suspicion will arise, but as of now, nothing presented has been conclusive nor intriguing enough to warrant voting for one person over another based purely on suspicion.
Since there is no great suspect, I will look at people whose strategies or personalities may disrupt game flow, be divisive, or harm fruitful discussions, and if that is not present, I will then look towards people who seem disinterested or unable to help find Spies.

I know some people may take issue with this stance. That is fine. It is not a stance that will extend far into the game, but especially first round, it is something I am willing to employ.

[Gertrude]

I'm leaving in less than half an hour, but at this moment, I am voting for Margot.

She's been accused of being unhelpful and an active lurker, and when she came into the group chat yesterday, she basically admitted it, and then went back to being invisible and unhelpful.

[Claude]

Jun 19, 2010 19:51:43 GMT -6 Isaac said:

Ok, so time to make this official. This in no way means I’m sticking with this vote, but for now my vote is Claude. Ever since the game began I’ve had a hard time trying to determine if I think he’s citizen or spy and there are just too many things in my mind pointing towards spy at this point.

First off there is the certainty in which he’s claimed to think several people are spies:

spies8claude 3:24 pm
I think Tina and Cory are both spies, yes.



spies8camilla (6:14:52 PM):and like i said, you clearly do not value your own life much
spies8claude (6:15:02 PM):No, I do. I just am that confident that you're a Spy.

Then there is making a statement like this:

spies8claude (6:16:10 PM):And I didn't need to speak with you for even an hour to be sure, it took about 5 minutes.

Or this:

spies8claude (6:17:42 PM):In a mafia game once, I caught a spy based off of one post. His/Her very first post of the game.
spies8camilla (6:18:01 PM):thats nice
spies8mary (6:18:02 PM):Can you explain?
spies8claude (6:18:05 PM):I ran into the same things I am running into here, but I persevered, and was right.

Not only do I find it in poor taste to state you think so many people are spies day 1, but that it appears because you were able to do it once before that it may work the same way here. Day one is full of guess work and getting to know people. Stating your theory is fine but saying I think all these people are all spies is quite a reach with so little to go on.

Second, he constantly misrepresents what others have said or do say in their chats. Whether intentionally or on accident, and until you are actually called out on it, you accept it as fact.

spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=dems&action=display&thread=313

or

spies8claude (6:08:04 PM):You called me an idiot multiple times, as well as calling me delusional.
spies8camilla (6:08:20 PM):i called you an idiot precisely once spies8claude (6:08:23 PM):Twice.

It was in fact once and it only happened like 10 minutes before but already in his mind he’s convinced he’s right. As for the above link I’m not even going to get into that, but it was the whole Cory vs. Claude thing because “he said, she said, someone heard this” and it was all blown out of whack. It just seems that once Claude decides or make his mind up on something, it’s the truth until proven otherwise and with all of us trying to figure everything out from chats and talking to one another it leads to a lot of confusion.

Third and finally….for now anyway. I absolutely hate, HATE the argument, “If Person A isn’t mafia then you can lynch me tomorrow”. :


spies8claude (6:12:58 PM):The part where I offered myself up to be Exiled if she flips Citizen is a great part of that tactic, I guess.
spies8claude (6:13:11 PM):If you're going to make accusations against me, at least stick to ones that make sense.
spies8chance (6:13:23 PM):claude, also, you do realize that saying you'll let yourself be exiled means a whole lot of nothing, right?
spies8camilla (6:13:23 PM):and if a do flip citizen, you'll be taking that comment back. spies8claude (6:13:29 PM):No.
spies8claude (6:13:32 PM):I will not take it back.
spies8claude (6:13:42 PM):I like how you said 'if' there, also. spies8claude (6:13:44 PM):Not 'when'
spies8chance (6:13:53 PM):how pro-town is that, claude?
spies8camilla (6:13:57 PM):i enjoy how you tell me that im giving up, but if im exiled and flip citizen, you will essentially be giving up
spies8chance (6:13:58 PM):answer: not very.
spies8claude (6:14:07 PM):Sometimes, you just have to be all-in to convince people. spies8chance (6:14:23 PM):'oh, exile camilla and if she's not a spy you can lynch me... but surprise i'm not a spy either so you just got rid of two citizens, yay.'
spies8claude (6:14:35 PM):I'm willing to take that chance with my life. spies8chance (6:14:41 PM):what happened to 'a citizen never gives up'? spies8camilla (6:14:52 PM):and like i said, you clearly do not value your own life much spies8claude (6:14:55 PM):I'd rather be a man of my word.

This just screws the rest of us in the game, especially only after day one. No self respecting citizen or spy will bet it all like that on such a lousy hunch. You are the one pushing this so hard with so much confidence for day one that it floors me because as far as I can see no one else in the game is this adamant about who spies and citizens are other then you and I still have yet to see any damning proof towards anyone else that would make me think otherwise. This thinking is reckless and we lose as a whole, especially later in the game with fewer players. The last thing we’ll need is someone like you going off half-cocked because you have a gut feeling or something and blowing it for everyone.

So yes, there it is. My vote could still change but I’m currently most suspicious of you.

So, let's break things down.

First, yes, I said that I thought Cory and Tina were both spies. It's no secret that I'm suspicious of Cory, and I made the statement that you are referencing right after Chance said that Cory and Tina were talking to each other *after* teams had been announced. Chance thought that this was a slam-dunk point against them also. Eventually he realized that it was incorrect, and I rescinded that statement, going back to my previous stance of being suspicious of Tina, and thinking Cory was a Spy.

As for Camilla. She, in fact, called me an idiot twice, and called me delusional. Go look through the chat logs, it's all right there. She called me an idiot toward the beginning, and then later again, as well as calling me delusional. Not that it matters a great deal, because even calling someone an idiot once is a scummy thing to do, but it's definitely worse that she resorted to repeated personal attacks against me.

And your last point is something that is hard for me to address. Effectively, you dislike that I display confidence in the wagons that I create. It's fine for you to not like my playstyle. It is NOT fine for you to try to turn this into a reason to vote me. Instead of saying what you 'don't like' about it, maybe you should try to explain how it could make me scum. Because you did nothing of the sort.

I'll post a summarization against Camilla soon.

[Cory]

I'm changing my vote to Camilla, mainly for her interaction with Claude last night in chat. Mainly I dislike her random bandwagony & fencesitting comment that was made about me without ever having interacted with me. She took it as fact when it was the subject of tremendous discrepancy this week.

Worth noting I dislike Chance's most recent stance against Claude. His attack partially rests on the idea that Claude did not fact check after Chance accused Tina and myself of speaking across teams, which he himself is guilty of. The other chunk of his accusation is that Claude didn't make a big enough scene about his "find", which, after seeing how robotic Claude is, doesn't seem too surprising to me. Lol.

[Jasmine]

I'm debating my vote at the moment. I think both Chance and Claude could potentially be spies.

Chance - The thing that makes me question Chance is the fact that everything seems to be to save his ass in some way. Everyone keeps mentioning the fact that he tells other people's thoughts but has none of his own. I think a spy would easily want to out other people, frame other people, do whatever it takes to get anyone else lynched but themselves. I can see Chance potentially doing this.

Claude - Claude being suspect of Cory hardcore, then Mary, then now Camilla hardcore. And then telling me in AIM that he still suspects Chance. I think all these names being thrown around and so heatedly with some of the reasons is reason to think he might be spy.

spies8claude 4:53 pm
(4:53:28 PM): I am voting for Camilla.
(4:53:33 PM): Honestly, I want to change my vote to Chance.
spies8jasmine 4:53 pm
(4:53:46 PM): Im reading your reasons for Camilla now.
spies8claude 4:53 pm
(4:53:48 PM): But I feel like they're both spies.

I am probably not voting Claude, pending new developments. I've explained this to several people over the past two days. The ideal play for a Spy is essentially the polar opposite of what he has done so far. He stuck his neck out and went after me with arguments void of reason. I was no threat to him at the time. He dug his heels in deep. He's been beefing with Chance and Camilla, relentless in his suspicions.

^ Cory said this above, and it's got me agreeing with it. Enough to not really thinking a Claude lynch would be good this early on. However, I'm still unsure.


That is where my head is at right now. I'm re-reading some more things, and I need to make my choice pretty soon.

For now my vote is on Chance but I'm still re-reading, but this is in-case I randomly disappear. But I doubt I will--AIM ME IF YOU ARE ONLINE!

[Awohali]

I expressed this earlier in the chat room and in private conversations with several people, but to make it public, I am indeed voting for Chance tonight.

1. He has spread disinformation. Accidental or not, it is reckless and harmful game play.
2. He performed very poorly in the chat room today in questioning and in discussions. From my perspective, he does not like to be confronted with the things he has done, and tends to change the subject when possible.
3. His reasons for suspecting Claude are shaky, hard to follow, and not very clear. I am still scratching my head about them.

[Margot]

I'm voting for Camilla. A lot has been said and some evidence has been given, and I agree with it. She feels more suspicious to me at this point.

To those that are saying I'm "unhelpful", sorry that you feel that way. I know I've been less helpful than others, but I don't feel that warrants me getting Exiled. Getting rid of someone because they don't contribute even if you might feel that they are a citizen is stupid. Go for the one that you think is the spy.

[Chance]

claude - 4 (larry, cam, 'zac, chance)
marge - 2 (cin, gertie)
cam - 3 (claude, cory, marge)
chance - 2 (jas, hal)

left to vote - mary, brod, lil, mags

[Gertrude]

I'm switching to Camilla. I agree with the things that were said about her more than I suspect Margot.