Gertrude
Gertrude
Jail changes an angel.
Posts: 117
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Post by Gertrude on Aug 19, 2010 3:43:14 GMT -6
regardless of that, jasmine, you do realize we can't mathematically afford to have you around at endgame anyway, right? someone showed that, i don't remember who, but either way if you're here at the end of the game whatever team you're on loses since you can't vote. i won't deny that's an entirely crappy reason to vote anyone, but i do think you've been entirely off the radar since you lost your vote and there are several reasons to think you're a spy. i don't plan to force anyone to switch given the disaster that was the dane exile, but i may just vote for jasmine this round if i'm still alive. The thing he's referencing was actually stated by Dane. I was sitting in that chat and was like "wtfff???" I just wish people would think before spewing theories like that.
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Gertrude
Gertrude
Jail changes an angel.
Posts: 117
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Post by Gertrude on Aug 19, 2010 3:57:34 GMT -6
I'll explain the flaw since I can't go to sleep.
1) Dane's point was that in a F3 situation with Jasmine, there'd only be two votes and that would be fail.
Well, there's not going to be a F3 situation with Jasmine. Whenever Imprisonment is (later today?) there will be six people left (bye, Chance). Let's say, for instance, they actually lynch a Spy. So, Mary's dead. There's 5 people and it's time for another Imprisonment (bye, Stephanie.). Now there's 4 people left with Jasmine. It's the last lynch of the game regardless. If they're right, hooray, town wins. If not, they go into the NK with three people, so Spies win.
If they lynch a Citizen today, they'd be down to 5 people with the NK and 2 Spies. Also a Spy win.
CONCLUSION: Jasmine's existence in the game (since she's town) has no meaning whatsoever, and Exiling her is an automatic townloss. I'm hoping Chance only echoed Dane's thoughts to try and avoid Imprisonment.
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Nita
Nita
Foreign Agent - ?Sorpresa!
Posts: 176
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Post by Nita on Aug 19, 2010 8:10:22 GMT -6
Chance es real dumb (LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL) but I gonna say it a little fun to watch. I can always be counting on him to say xactly the wrong thing.
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Owen
Owen
The Cituation
Posts: 99
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Post by Owen on Aug 19, 2010 9:40:46 GMT -6
Typical Chazz Chance.
I don't like that Jasmine is encouraging it. Gives these people an easy out.
Edit: I'm REALLY hoping that Chance is using this as a way to avoid imprisonment. I know that he doesn't fully trust Mary, so maybe this is a way of taking her down? Wishful thinking? Probably.
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Savannah
Savannah
Sweet as a cupcake (yum!)
Posts: 111
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Post by Savannah on Aug 19, 2010 10:31:43 GMT -6
Chance should realize it's probably more helpful if he's the one imprisoned. -.-
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Post by Broderick on Aug 19, 2010 10:41:59 GMT -6
If Chance doesn't trust Mary, then it would probably be better to keep him in the game - from a cit standpoint, [obligatory if he is a cit]. It would leave Steph Mary hambone Rondak Jasmine Kiara. The majority of those people are wagoners. rondak will wagon. Hambone probably will Stephanie & Mary would really be the only 'leaders'. If either a spy, then effed. Mary leader, with steph trusting her - double effed. I still don't get WHY shetrusts either. End of the line... cits are FUCKED. May as well get your axe body spray and Jack Johnson albums.. NOW.
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Cory
Cory
Hot Because He's Fly
Posts: 127
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Post by Cory on Aug 19, 2010 12:49:03 GMT -6
Yes. English Teach's analysis is correct. Jasman is not an issue because we are not dealing with an odd number of players. Unfortunately, we will not win Spies 8. Time to start thinking about how to bust out of this here prison. BUSMALIS!!!
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Nita
Nita
Foreign Agent - ?Sorpresa!
Posts: 176
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Post by Nita on Aug 19, 2010 12:56:20 GMT -6
Jasmine es an issue if she be a spy. The game ain't gonna end til all spies have been eliminated. Spy Jasmine ain't votin, but she still imprisonin.
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Gertrude
Gertrude
Jail changes an angel.
Posts: 117
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Post by Gertrude on Aug 19, 2010 17:57:45 GMT -6
There is no Spy Jasmine. Ganso bobo.
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Savannah
Savannah
Sweet as a cupcake (yum!)
Posts: 111
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Post by Savannah on Aug 19, 2010 18:30:31 GMT -6
Yeah sorry Nita.
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Post by Dane on Aug 19, 2010 19:00:21 GMT -6
I'm stalking up on beersicles and moving to Iceland before the cits lose it at this exile.
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Post by Dane on Aug 19, 2010 19:00:58 GMT -6
Also, in new fucktacular news, MARY is now the official Tiebreaker.
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Owen
Owen
The Cituation
Posts: 99
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Post by Owen on Aug 19, 2010 19:49:36 GMT -6
That would be my bad.
Though I had no idea that I would even be the tiebreaker when becoming dictator, nor did I consider that my 2nd in command would take it over once I was gone. Nor should we even be in this situation right now. >_>
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Tina
Tina
I found Fifi
Posts: 7
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Post by Tina on Aug 19, 2010 19:58:23 GMT -6
I'm stalking up on beersicles and moving to Iceland before the cits lose it at this exile. Bring a jacket. I hear Iceland is a bit nippy this time of month, and next month, and the one after that. June is supposed to be nice though.
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Cory
Cory
Hot Because He's Fly
Posts: 127
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Post by Cory on Aug 19, 2010 20:05:24 GMT -6
Judge Sam: "I hope everyone can be there!"
Even Sam knows we have no chance in hell.
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Gertrude
Gertrude
Jail changes an angel.
Posts: 117
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Post by Gertrude on Aug 19, 2010 21:51:14 GMT -6
Actually, Iceland is pretty nice in the summer. It's Greenland that's pretty torturous.
Tricky little vikings.
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Post by Broderick on Aug 19, 2010 23:04:05 GMT -6
Hi Chance. If you plan on adopting a theory as your own, or at the very least using it as a reason to vote another out. You should understand it to begin with and be able to explain it in your own words. Well, maybe we are not at lylo - though I thought we were. But I see no 'possible finale' scheduling from Sam. He wouldn't be evil like that, if this Exile could be end game. Does that mean Jasmine Spy? Or will he do it after Imprisonment?
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Gertrude
Gertrude
Jail changes an angel.
Posts: 117
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Post by Gertrude on Aug 19, 2010 23:15:59 GMT -6
Technically speaking, the Spies wouldn't win until they Imprison someone else. MAYBE THERE'S ANOTHER DOCTOR, AND WE HAVE A SHOT!!
But having Imprisonment be the finale seems lame.
I'm not sure. In all of my seasons of Spies, I can't recall this situation happening.
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Owen
Owen
The Cituation
Posts: 99
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Post by Owen on Aug 20, 2010 0:18:20 GMT -6
I really hope if that's the case that he just does the imprisonment immediately after exile. If not, the finale will be so anticlimactic.
I'm surprised he made no mention of the finale.
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Cory
Cory
Hot Because He's Fly
Posts: 127
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Post by Cory on Aug 20, 2010 2:57:21 GMT -6
Actually I just recalled that this Sunday can't be the finale. Sam said that the game would go on an extra episode so as not to give away a the identity of whoever lost their vote if the game hadn't ended when it otherwise should have.
Unless I am high on medical morphine again.
This is good news though. More time for taunts?
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Post by Gabriel on Aug 20, 2010 3:14:18 GMT -6
Pointless Taunts.
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Post by Broderick on Aug 20, 2010 8:02:08 GMT -6
I thought there was something useful in that thread - but couldn't be bothered to go find it. xD Thanks Philosoraptor! Actually I just found it, and he says thegame will only end when a side has majority + 1.
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Nita
Nita
Foreign Agent - ?Sorpresa!
Posts: 176
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Post by Nita on Aug 20, 2010 8:05:53 GMT -6
I no understand Sam's post bout endin the game that he made a while back.
After tonight we gonna have 6 players. If Jasmine ain't a spy, you got 3 citizens votin against 2 spies. That be LYLO. If Jasmine es a spy, you got 4 citizens votin against 1 votin spy. That ain't LYLO.
So what be this nonsense bout makin the game go on longer? If the game es over, it be over.
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Post by Broderick on Aug 20, 2010 8:17:30 GMT -6
Unless I am interpreting it wrong, for the Spies to win, they would essentially have to eliminate every single Citizen?
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Post by Claude on Aug 20, 2010 9:58:56 GMT -6
It's easy to understand what Sam said in theory.
But in practicality, it doesn't work out. If the playerbase is '3 Citizens including Jasmine vs. 2 spies', the Spies cannot actually lose. The voting will just be forever tied, and uhh..Mary is the tiebreaker vote(any one person being a tiebreaker vote is a fucking terrible idea, but I can't say that I'm surprised anymore).
Ultimately, it doesn't matter if the Spies need '+1' to win, because nothing will stop them from achieving said +1.
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Post by Dane on Aug 20, 2010 10:02:21 GMT -6
No broderick, here is what it comes down to: If the spies ever have a greater number of voting spies than the voting citizens, they win, because from that point, they control every exile by number of votes, meaning they can just exile/imprison the rest of the citizens (sam wouldn't draw it out like that, so at that point he would declare spy victory). The other case for them to win is if they have an EQUAL number of voters as the citizens, and the tiebreaker (currently Mary) is a spy as well.
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Post by Judge Sam on Aug 20, 2010 10:46:33 GMT -6
What method would you use to break deadlocked ties if you were the host, Claude?
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Post by Broderick on Aug 20, 2010 11:11:08 GMT -6
That kind of was/is my point Dane. There are two spies left, yes?
Which means to have a majority + 1; would be to have 0 or 1cit left, yes?
Or is that +1 not required to be a spy, or is in terms of votes and not players themselves?
Oh please Claude.Tiebreakers have been used successfully iin the past. Whether controlled by a single person or multiple.
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Post by Claude on Aug 20, 2010 12:07:31 GMT -6
2 spies vs. 2 citizens + Jasmine is still a majority in effect, because Jasmine has no vote anyway. The Spies will still win via inevitability in this scenario. The only possible saving grace would be Mary being a Citizen and using the tiebreaker vote on a Spy, but like..that doesn't seem particularly likely.
@sam: Admittedly, it's a bad situation to be in period, and there probably isn't a really solid solution. Really though, a tie vote should result in a No Lynch. Or in both people being lynched. But if it has to come down to one person having the tiebreaker vote, that person should be decided upon by the living playerbase at the time, not due to something that happened when the gamestate was drastically different. If Mary is a Spy, that means that the town now is effectively cripped because of something that happened a month ago. That is just not right.
The real problem that I have with a tiebreaker vote is that it robs the town of a valuable option for the situation that they are in: Voting No Lynch. Without the 'tiebreaker' vote, even with Jasmine not having a vote, the town could NL today. It would force the scum into imprisoning someone, and anyone they imprison would be a benefit to the town. Either A)they would be imprisoning a person that they want to try to get mislynched or B)they would be imprisoning someone that they can dupe into bandwagoning. Either way, the one less body is helpful to the town, and helps to bring up questions like 'Why is such and such person still alive'.
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Cory
Cory
Hot Because He's Fly
Posts: 127
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Post by Cory on Aug 20, 2010 12:38:40 GMT -6
If it was a Spy who lost their vote(which unfortunately almost certainly is not our current situation), there is a slim chance of success even if there was a mis-exile this episode:
Currently: 7 players. 5 Cits. 2 Spies. -Imprisonment
4 Cits VS 2 Spies(1 has a vote) -Cit Exile -Cit Imprisonment
2 Cits vs 2 Spies(1 has a vote)
Only way to win here is to exile the Spy with a vote. The last Spy, who has no vote, would imprison one other Citizen.
1 Cit vs 1 Spy(0 votes)
Since the last Citizen would have the only vote, they would automatically win the game as the last (wo)man standing.
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