Mary's Episode 4 Conversations
Jul 7, 2010 13:53:49 GMT -6
Post by Mary on Jul 7, 2010 13:53:49 GMT -6
[09:30] spies8mary: Hi.
[09:39] spies8claude: Hello.
[09:39] spies8mary: Don't freak out and leave on me.
[09:39] spies8claude: I would never leave you, Mary.
[09:39] spies8mary: But I am finding it difficult to believe that you did not use the anonymizer role.
[09:40] spies8claude: For me to be lying.
[09:40] spies8claude: Allan would also have to be a liar.
[09:40] spies8mary: Why?
[09:40] spies8claude: Because I targeted him today, and he verified(to me at least) having been targeted
[09:40] spies8claude: So, I'm sure he would do the same for you.
[09:40] spies8claude: Tell you that I targeted him at least.
[09:40] spies8mary: Then this would be a one-time or multiple time limited use of your role.
[09:41] spies8mary: You have these three powers plus a limited ability to anonymize.
[09:41] spies8claude: Why would I be able to use more than one ability today, when I couldn't any other day.
[09:41] spies8mary: Good question.
[09:41] spies8mary: Do you think this could be tied to the exile immuning role?
[09:41] spies8claude: I doubt it.
[09:42] spies8mary: They also used their power today on Gertrude, right?
[09:42] spies8claude: Some Spy didn't want Isaac to get lynched.
[09:42] spies8claude: Yeah.
[09:42] spies8claude: So they tried to muddle things.
[09:42] spies8mary: Your position is that you are a Citizen who manipulates votes.
[09:42] spies8mary: And that now you are 100% certain there is also a spy who manipulates votes.
[09:42] spies8mary: Right?
[09:43] spies8claude: No, I am not 100% certain. It could just be a really dumb citizen.
[09:43] spies8claude: But that is ridiculously unlikely.
[09:44] spies8mary: Since I have viewed you as a Citizen for quite some time, my first thought was that this was a semi-selfish act on your part as a Citizen.
[09:44] spies8mary: Similar to your discussion of hijacking Owen's votes.
[09:44] spies8mary: Then I considered that it's a really unlikely ability to give a Citizen.
[09:44] spies8mary: Then I considered that Sam actively tries to keep us from metagaming him.
[09:44] spies8claude: I've seen townies with that role before.
[09:45] spies8mary: You have?
[09:45] spies8claude: But the timing of it makes it very unlikely, IMO.
[09:45] spies8claude: yeah, once or twice.
[09:45] spies8mary: The result seems purely anti-town.
[09:45] spies8claude: Agreed.
[09:45] spies8mary: As in, the lack of voting information.
[09:45] spies8mary: Not necessarily the removal of you and Rondak.
[09:46] spies8mary: If I were a Citizen with your role I would have considered using it there.
[09:47] spies8claude: I used the ability that I had left, on Allan. Now I'll be able to use any of my 3 abilities again tomorrow.
[09:47] spies8mary: From my perspective it would uncomplicate Owen's decision, eliminate the possibility of one misexile (me) and the only downside is possibly taking a Spy (Rondak) off the list.
[09:48] spies8claude: That makes sense.
[09:48] spies8claude: But it still wasn't me.
[09:48] spies8mary: Do we have any evidence of a Spy role that manipulated votes in the first three episodes?
[09:48] spies8claude: Not that I'm aware of.
[09:48] spies8mary: Other than possibly the exile immuner?
[09:49] spies8mary: Thank you again for the therapy session, by the way.
[09:49] spies8mary: I posted it. Hopefully you saw it and didn't mind?
[09:50] spies8claude: I am not sure what you're referring to
[09:50] spies8mary: spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg&action=display&thread=885
[09:51] spies8claude: What does the link go to
[09:52] spies8mary: An audio recording.
[09:52] spies8claude: yeah I'm watching
[09:53] spies8claude: Chuckle
[09:53] spies8claude: Quite funny.
[09:53] spies8mary: That's not really the most professional way to describe it, Claude.
[09:53] spies8mary: But whatever. Thank you again for the help.
[09:54] spies8mary: Who do you think the six spies are?
[09:56] spies8claude: Hmmm.
[09:56] spies8claude: I'll have to figure that out now, as I no longer see Stephanie as a real possibility.
[09:56] spies8claude: Isaac, Chance, Gert.
[09:56] spies8claude: Rondak most likely.
[10:02] spies8mary: I talked to Gertrude for some time last night.
[10:02] spies8mary: She asked me if I thought she was a Spy and I said it was a distinct possibility.
[10:02] spies8mary: She seemed surprised and disappointed and asked why.
[10:03] spies8mary: I said it was because she was intentionally underperforming.
[10:03] spies8mary: Would you agree with that statement?
[10:04] spies8claude: Yeah.
[10:04] spies8claude: That's what I said at the start of Game Day 3, and she really overreacted I thought.
[10:04] spies8mary: She is one of the most logical, clever people around.
[10:05] spies8mary: And I think she's roleplaying a bandwagony Survivor player.
[10:05] spies8mary: I've seen Survivor players hunt spies before.
[10:05] spies8mary: They don't behave the way she's behaving.
[10:06] spies8mary: Gut + bad results from her = strong suspect.
[10:08] spies8claude: I agree.
[10:09] spies8mary: She asked if I'd seen anything Citizenlike from her.
[10:09] spies8mary: I absolutely struggled with that.
[10:09] spies8claude: That seems like a very uncitizenlike question.
[10:09] spies8mary: Then she asked me who I found most suspicious, Tina, Awohali or Broderick.
[10:10] spies8claude: How can anyone find Broderick or Awohali suspicious..
[10:11] spies8mary: I wouldn't say I've cleared them by any sense.
[10:11] spies8mary: But it's an odd question nonetheless.
[10:12] spies8mary: Have you seen Tina selectively ignore any suspects?
[10:12] spies8claude: I just don't know why should would single out those three.
[10:13] spies8claude: Hmm.
[10:13] spies8mary: Her case-making is pro-Citizen unless she selectively makes cases.
[10:13] spies8claude: I haven't seen that personally, but I haven't interacted with herm uch.
[10:13] spies8mary: Ok.
[10:14] spies8mary: For example, I definitely got a sense that Nita was avoiding committing to my Jenny case.
[10:14] spies8mary: And now I understand why.
[10:14] spies8mary: I haven't gotten that sense from Tina.
[10:14] spies8mary: Only that she is quick to leave a case when people bandwagon it.
[10:14] spies8claude: I'm still concerned that Tina ditched the Alexei wagon.
[10:15] spies8mary: Yes.
[10:15] spies8mary: She was raising evidence with Jenny in the hours before deadline.
[10:15] spies8mary: Looking for either confirmation of her thought process or validation for a vote shift.
[10:15] spies8mary: Jenny gave her nothing--refused to comment.
[10:15] spies8mary: It was really suspicious.
[10:16] spies8mary: I thought my Jenny case was rock solid until this Nita thing came up.
[10:16] spies8mary: Do you think the Spies would have planned it this way for her?
[10:16] spies8claude: What do you mean
[10:16] spies8mary: And do you think she is capable of pulling that level of deception off?
[10:17] spies8mary: If she is a Spy, then the spies planned exactly how this would play out.
[10:17] spies8mary: When they'd kill Nita, and why.
[10:17] spies8claude: talking about Jenny, now?
[10:17] spies8mary: And how Jenny would respond.
[10:17] spies8mary: Yes.
[10:17] spies8claude: Well, I'm fairly sure that the Spies tried to kill Nita N1 and failed.
[10:17] spies8mary: That was my guess.
[10:17] spies8claude: I don't understand what you mean about 'how Jenny would respond'
[10:18] spies8claude: Did I miss something?
[10:18] spies8mary: The Spies had to decide whether Jenny should admit her Nita situation or not.
[10:18] spies8mary: The alternative would be "cover it up and say nothing".
[10:19] spies8claude: Her 'Nita situation'?
[10:20] spies8mary: Unless Jenny is lying, she was approached by Nita and concealed Nita for 2 1/2 episodes.
[10:21] spies8claude: Hmmmm.
[10:21] spies8claude: That makes no sense.
[10:21] spies8mary: If she is a spy, her spy team could have easily told her to just cover that up.
[10:21] spies8mary: Never say a word about it.
[10:21] spies8mary: The vastly more risky plan would seem to be to come clean about it.
[10:21] spies8claude: Why would that be risky..
[10:21] spies8mary: Don't you think?
[10:22] spies8mary: It would bring attention upon her.
[10:22] spies8mary: That's what I'm considering.
[10:22] spies8mary: She appears to have received benefits from the claim.
[10:22] spies8mary: But could they have known that ahead of time?
[10:22] spies8claude: She received benefits from what claim
[10:23] spies8mary: From the way she told the Nita story.
[10:24] spies8mary: Are you seeing this differently than I am?
[10:24] spies8claude: I'm just not completely understanding it, I guess.
[10:24] spies8claude: What do you mean she 'received benefits'
[10:24] spies8mary: I see her as less suspicious as a result of her coming out and telling her Nita story.
[10:25] spies8claude: I'm pretty skeptical that Nita would tell anyone the truth of her role.
[10:25] spies8claude: Especially Jenny.
[10:25] spies8mary: I totally agree.
[10:25] spies8mary: I totally disagree with what Jenny says she did.
[10:25] spies8claude: And she is only telling people about it after Nita is dead.
[10:25] spies8mary: I wouldn't have handled it anywhere near like that.
[10:26] spies8mary: But I'm weighing whether her actions as a whole make sense as a Spy.
[10:27] spies8claude: I wonder if the Spies have a role that lets them learn someone else's role.
[10:27] spies8mary: Why?
[10:28] spies8mary: Then they'd have checked Nita most likely to assess the risk.
[10:28] spies8claude: It seems odd that 2 people went to Jenny and told her their role.
[10:29] spies8mary: Your logic doesn't make sense. Nita wasn't a Spy.
[10:30] spies8claude: I know.
[10:30] spies8mary: If you're thinking Allan's a Spy, the more likely conclusion is that Jenny's a Spy too.
[10:30] spies8claude: No, not Allan.
[10:30] spies8claude: Ah nm, I forgot that Allan told Jenny about his role, according to him.
[10:30] spies8claude: So did Jenny say why Nita told her this?
[10:30] spies8mary: You have reason to disbelieve that?
[10:31] spies8claude: Because it really makes absolutely zero sense to me.
[10:31] spies8mary: You know that answer, don't you?
[10:31] spies8mary: Why Nita came to Jenny?
[10:31] spies8claude: No..why would I ask you if I knew..
[10:31] spies8mary: The story goes that Nita was sure Jenny was a Spy.
[10:31] spies8claude: Try to remember that I was offline for 3 days.
[10:32] spies8mary: And wanted protection from Imprisonment.
[10:32] spies8mary: Jenny says the threat was "I'll make a case on you if you don't keep me safe."
[10:32] spies8mary: Which is an idle threat, I'd think.
[10:33] spies8claude: Hmm.
[10:37] spies8claude: It's hard to make much sense out of this.
[10:38] spies8mary: The net effect is it got me off her back.
[10:38] spies8mary: And I think a few people hopped on her because of it.
[10:39] spies8claude: She could be telling the truth..if she was in league with Nita somehow, then it makes more sense that she told Allan to tell Nita about his claimed role.
[10:39] spies8mary: Did she tell Allan to do that?
[10:40] spies8claude: I thought that was how it was explained
[10:40] spies8mary: I thought Allan claimed to make nicey-nice with Nita.
[10:40] spies8claude: But I could be remembering incorrectly.
[10:40] spies8mary: She was on his back and
[10:40] spies8mary: But regardless
[10:40] spies8mary: I can't imagine a Citizen telling a role to claim to a third party.
[10:41] spies8mary: I haven't seen that stated.
[10:41] spies8claude: I'll do some research on it.
[10:41] spies8mary: It seems like "get a roleholder killed" would be a logical secret agent mission.
[10:42] spies8mary: Or "Get a Citizen roleholder killed."
[10:42] spies8claude: maybe
[10:42] spies8claude: I don't really see the use in that kind of speculation, honestly.
[10:42] spies8mary: Would you have outed Nita?
[10:43] spies8claude: Yes.
[10:43] spies8claude: The entire playerbase trusted her, when she really should not have been trusted.
[10:43] spies8mary: Same here.
[10:43] spies8mary: So one question is, why didn't Jenny out her.
[10:44] spies8claude: I can't see any Citizen just keeping that under wraps.
[10:45] spies8mary: I agree. Jenny's arguments are posted though, and it's just tough to see why a Spy wouldn't have avoided all this mess to begin with.
[10:46] spies8claude: Well
[10:46] spies8mary: spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=burg&thread=893&post=4826
[10:48] spies8mary: I'm starting to wonder whether Lilith is a spy.
[10:48] spies8claude: I don't see anything indicating that she is.
[10:48] spies8mary: This is the second time I've seen her say "It explains to me why Nita wasn't targetted earlier."
[10:48] spies8claude: ?
[10:49] spies8mary: spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=burg&thread=826&post=5014
[11:07] spies8claude: The whole thing makes so little sense to me.
[11:11] spies8claude: The way that Jenny handled Allan claiming vs. how she handled Nita claiming is also troubling.
[11:11] spies8mary: How so?
[11:12] spies8claude: I mean like..she outed Allan, but, not Nita?
[11:12] spies8mary: Nita wasn't in danger of Exile.
[11:12] spies8mary: Allan arguably was.
[11:12] spies8claude: Nita also claimed a role that would inevitably end up hurting the town.
[11:12] spies8mary: Yes.
[11:13] spies8mary: I agree with you utterly. Jenny did not handle the Nita situation like a Citizen should/would.
[11:13] spies8claude: Blah.
[11:13] spies8claude: Yeah.
[11:13] spies8claude: I don't want to try to figure this out today really, I'd rather lynch Isaac and try to work it out from there.
[11:13] spies8mary: Right.
[11:14] spies8mary: A spy would use Nita til she got on to other Spies.
[11:14] spies8mary: And then poof.
[11:15] spies8claude: I'm not even sure I believe Jenny, heh.
[11:16] spies8mary: There's no way she made up all that.
[11:16] spies8claude: It's just so convenient.
[11:16] spies8mary: There could be lies in it, but the core of the story must have happened.
[11:17] spies8mary: I just don't get how a Citizen doesn't pin Nita down on all her tasks.
[11:17] spies8claude: Or at least try to..
[11:17] spies8mary: And if Jenny catches Nita doing anything anti-Cit, she outs her.
[11:17] spies8claude: How hard is it to say 'tell me your tasks or I'll out you'
[11:24] spies8mary: Chance is a Spy.
[11:25] spies8claude: I'm already of that opinion..
[11:25] spies8mary: He made, or tried to make an extensive case on you.
[11:25] spies8mary: He's not done a single thing since then.
[11:25] spies8mary: And he's rested on that case.
[11:25] spies8mary: Which sucks.
[11:26] spies8claude: lol
[11:32] spies8claude: Lilith does bring up one good point re: Jenny, though.
[11:33] spies8claude: Why would a spy ever come forward with that information(about Nita).
[11:33] spies8mary: That's what I was trying to tell you earlier.
[11:33] spies8mary: When you weren't understanding me.
[11:34] spies8mary: spies8mary: I thought my Jenny case was rock solid until this Nita thing came up.
spies8mary: Do you think the Spies would have planned it this way for her?
[11:34] spies8mary: spies8mary: The Spies had to decide whether Jenny should admit her Nita situation or not.
spies8mary: The alternative would be "cover it up and say nothing".
[11:34] spies8claude: I just don't see what the benefit is if she is a Spy.
[11:35] spies8mary: Right, unless they are so crafty that they worked all this out ahead of time.
[11:35] spies8claude: I guess
[11:35] spies8mary: And gambled that it would make Jenny look good.
[11:35] spies8claude: Like, that is definitely possible.
[11:35] spies8claude: But it's a pretty convoluted gamble.
[11:36] spies8mary: That's exactly why I've backed off Jenny.
[11:36] spies8claude: I don't want to lynch her over Isaac anyway.
[11:36] spies8mary: It's a terrible piece of evidence to rely on because it's WIFOM or whatever.
[11:36] spies8mary: Right.
[11:36] spies8mary: I would have considered Chance over Isaac.
[11:36] spies8mary: But right now it's all Isaac.
[11:36] spies8claude: Me too obviously.
[09:39] spies8claude: Hello.
[09:39] spies8mary: Don't freak out and leave on me.
[09:39] spies8claude: I would never leave you, Mary.
[09:39] spies8mary: But I am finding it difficult to believe that you did not use the anonymizer role.
[09:40] spies8claude: For me to be lying.
[09:40] spies8claude: Allan would also have to be a liar.
[09:40] spies8mary: Why?
[09:40] spies8claude: Because I targeted him today, and he verified(to me at least) having been targeted
[09:40] spies8claude: So, I'm sure he would do the same for you.
[09:40] spies8claude: Tell you that I targeted him at least.
[09:40] spies8mary: Then this would be a one-time or multiple time limited use of your role.
[09:41] spies8mary: You have these three powers plus a limited ability to anonymize.
[09:41] spies8claude: Why would I be able to use more than one ability today, when I couldn't any other day.
[09:41] spies8mary: Good question.
[09:41] spies8mary: Do you think this could be tied to the exile immuning role?
[09:41] spies8claude: I doubt it.
[09:42] spies8mary: They also used their power today on Gertrude, right?
[09:42] spies8claude: Some Spy didn't want Isaac to get lynched.
[09:42] spies8claude: Yeah.
[09:42] spies8claude: So they tried to muddle things.
[09:42] spies8mary: Your position is that you are a Citizen who manipulates votes.
[09:42] spies8mary: And that now you are 100% certain there is also a spy who manipulates votes.
[09:42] spies8mary: Right?
[09:43] spies8claude: No, I am not 100% certain. It could just be a really dumb citizen.
[09:43] spies8claude: But that is ridiculously unlikely.
[09:44] spies8mary: Since I have viewed you as a Citizen for quite some time, my first thought was that this was a semi-selfish act on your part as a Citizen.
[09:44] spies8mary: Similar to your discussion of hijacking Owen's votes.
[09:44] spies8mary: Then I considered that it's a really unlikely ability to give a Citizen.
[09:44] spies8mary: Then I considered that Sam actively tries to keep us from metagaming him.
[09:44] spies8claude: I've seen townies with that role before.
[09:45] spies8mary: You have?
[09:45] spies8claude: But the timing of it makes it very unlikely, IMO.
[09:45] spies8claude: yeah, once or twice.
[09:45] spies8mary: The result seems purely anti-town.
[09:45] spies8claude: Agreed.
[09:45] spies8mary: As in, the lack of voting information.
[09:45] spies8mary: Not necessarily the removal of you and Rondak.
[09:46] spies8mary: If I were a Citizen with your role I would have considered using it there.
[09:47] spies8claude: I used the ability that I had left, on Allan. Now I'll be able to use any of my 3 abilities again tomorrow.
[09:47] spies8mary: From my perspective it would uncomplicate Owen's decision, eliminate the possibility of one misexile (me) and the only downside is possibly taking a Spy (Rondak) off the list.
[09:48] spies8claude: That makes sense.
[09:48] spies8claude: But it still wasn't me.
[09:48] spies8mary: Do we have any evidence of a Spy role that manipulated votes in the first three episodes?
[09:48] spies8claude: Not that I'm aware of.
[09:48] spies8mary: Other than possibly the exile immuner?
[09:49] spies8mary: Thank you again for the therapy session, by the way.
[09:49] spies8mary: I posted it. Hopefully you saw it and didn't mind?
[09:50] spies8claude: I am not sure what you're referring to
[09:50] spies8mary: spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=burg&action=display&thread=885
[09:51] spies8claude: What does the link go to
[09:52] spies8mary: An audio recording.
[09:52] spies8claude: yeah I'm watching
[09:53] spies8claude: Chuckle
[09:53] spies8claude: Quite funny.
[09:53] spies8mary: That's not really the most professional way to describe it, Claude.
[09:53] spies8mary: But whatever. Thank you again for the help.
[09:54] spies8mary: Who do you think the six spies are?
[09:56] spies8claude: Hmmm.
[09:56] spies8claude: I'll have to figure that out now, as I no longer see Stephanie as a real possibility.
[09:56] spies8claude: Isaac, Chance, Gert.
[09:56] spies8claude: Rondak most likely.
[10:02] spies8mary: I talked to Gertrude for some time last night.
[10:02] spies8mary: She asked me if I thought she was a Spy and I said it was a distinct possibility.
[10:02] spies8mary: She seemed surprised and disappointed and asked why.
[10:03] spies8mary: I said it was because she was intentionally underperforming.
[10:03] spies8mary: Would you agree with that statement?
[10:04] spies8claude: Yeah.
[10:04] spies8claude: That's what I said at the start of Game Day 3, and she really overreacted I thought.
[10:04] spies8mary: She is one of the most logical, clever people around.
[10:05] spies8mary: And I think she's roleplaying a bandwagony Survivor player.
[10:05] spies8mary: I've seen Survivor players hunt spies before.
[10:05] spies8mary: They don't behave the way she's behaving.
[10:06] spies8mary: Gut + bad results from her = strong suspect.
[10:08] spies8claude: I agree.
[10:09] spies8mary: She asked if I'd seen anything Citizenlike from her.
[10:09] spies8mary: I absolutely struggled with that.
[10:09] spies8claude: That seems like a very uncitizenlike question.
[10:09] spies8mary: Then she asked me who I found most suspicious, Tina, Awohali or Broderick.
[10:10] spies8claude: How can anyone find Broderick or Awohali suspicious..
[10:11] spies8mary: I wouldn't say I've cleared them by any sense.
[10:11] spies8mary: But it's an odd question nonetheless.
[10:12] spies8mary: Have you seen Tina selectively ignore any suspects?
[10:12] spies8claude: I just don't know why should would single out those three.
[10:13] spies8claude: Hmm.
[10:13] spies8mary: Her case-making is pro-Citizen unless she selectively makes cases.
[10:13] spies8claude: I haven't seen that personally, but I haven't interacted with herm uch.
[10:13] spies8mary: Ok.
[10:14] spies8mary: For example, I definitely got a sense that Nita was avoiding committing to my Jenny case.
[10:14] spies8mary: And now I understand why.
[10:14] spies8mary: I haven't gotten that sense from Tina.
[10:14] spies8mary: Only that she is quick to leave a case when people bandwagon it.
[10:14] spies8claude: I'm still concerned that Tina ditched the Alexei wagon.
[10:15] spies8mary: Yes.
[10:15] spies8mary: She was raising evidence with Jenny in the hours before deadline.
[10:15] spies8mary: Looking for either confirmation of her thought process or validation for a vote shift.
[10:15] spies8mary: Jenny gave her nothing--refused to comment.
[10:15] spies8mary: It was really suspicious.
[10:16] spies8mary: I thought my Jenny case was rock solid until this Nita thing came up.
[10:16] spies8mary: Do you think the Spies would have planned it this way for her?
[10:16] spies8claude: What do you mean
[10:16] spies8mary: And do you think she is capable of pulling that level of deception off?
[10:17] spies8mary: If she is a Spy, then the spies planned exactly how this would play out.
[10:17] spies8mary: When they'd kill Nita, and why.
[10:17] spies8claude: talking about Jenny, now?
[10:17] spies8mary: And how Jenny would respond.
[10:17] spies8mary: Yes.
[10:17] spies8claude: Well, I'm fairly sure that the Spies tried to kill Nita N1 and failed.
[10:17] spies8mary: That was my guess.
[10:17] spies8claude: I don't understand what you mean about 'how Jenny would respond'
[10:18] spies8claude: Did I miss something?
[10:18] spies8mary: The Spies had to decide whether Jenny should admit her Nita situation or not.
[10:18] spies8mary: The alternative would be "cover it up and say nothing".
[10:19] spies8claude: Her 'Nita situation'?
[10:20] spies8mary: Unless Jenny is lying, she was approached by Nita and concealed Nita for 2 1/2 episodes.
[10:21] spies8claude: Hmmmm.
[10:21] spies8claude: That makes no sense.
[10:21] spies8mary: If she is a spy, her spy team could have easily told her to just cover that up.
[10:21] spies8mary: Never say a word about it.
[10:21] spies8mary: The vastly more risky plan would seem to be to come clean about it.
[10:21] spies8claude: Why would that be risky..
[10:21] spies8mary: Don't you think?
[10:22] spies8mary: It would bring attention upon her.
[10:22] spies8mary: That's what I'm considering.
[10:22] spies8mary: She appears to have received benefits from the claim.
[10:22] spies8mary: But could they have known that ahead of time?
[10:22] spies8claude: She received benefits from what claim
[10:23] spies8mary: From the way she told the Nita story.
[10:24] spies8mary: Are you seeing this differently than I am?
[10:24] spies8claude: I'm just not completely understanding it, I guess.
[10:24] spies8claude: What do you mean she 'received benefits'
[10:24] spies8mary: I see her as less suspicious as a result of her coming out and telling her Nita story.
[10:25] spies8claude: I'm pretty skeptical that Nita would tell anyone the truth of her role.
[10:25] spies8claude: Especially Jenny.
[10:25] spies8mary: I totally agree.
[10:25] spies8mary: I totally disagree with what Jenny says she did.
[10:25] spies8claude: And she is only telling people about it after Nita is dead.
[10:25] spies8mary: I wouldn't have handled it anywhere near like that.
[10:26] spies8mary: But I'm weighing whether her actions as a whole make sense as a Spy.
[10:27] spies8claude: I wonder if the Spies have a role that lets them learn someone else's role.
[10:27] spies8mary: Why?
[10:28] spies8mary: Then they'd have checked Nita most likely to assess the risk.
[10:28] spies8claude: It seems odd that 2 people went to Jenny and told her their role.
[10:29] spies8mary: Your logic doesn't make sense. Nita wasn't a Spy.
[10:30] spies8claude: I know.
[10:30] spies8mary: If you're thinking Allan's a Spy, the more likely conclusion is that Jenny's a Spy too.
[10:30] spies8claude: No, not Allan.
[10:30] spies8claude: Ah nm, I forgot that Allan told Jenny about his role, according to him.
[10:30] spies8claude: So did Jenny say why Nita told her this?
[10:30] spies8mary: You have reason to disbelieve that?
[10:31] spies8claude: Because it really makes absolutely zero sense to me.
[10:31] spies8mary: You know that answer, don't you?
[10:31] spies8mary: Why Nita came to Jenny?
[10:31] spies8claude: No..why would I ask you if I knew..
[10:31] spies8mary: The story goes that Nita was sure Jenny was a Spy.
[10:31] spies8claude: Try to remember that I was offline for 3 days.
[10:32] spies8mary: And wanted protection from Imprisonment.
[10:32] spies8mary: Jenny says the threat was "I'll make a case on you if you don't keep me safe."
[10:32] spies8mary: Which is an idle threat, I'd think.
[10:33] spies8claude: Hmm.
[10:37] spies8claude: It's hard to make much sense out of this.
[10:38] spies8mary: The net effect is it got me off her back.
[10:38] spies8mary: And I think a few people hopped on her because of it.
[10:39] spies8claude: She could be telling the truth..if she was in league with Nita somehow, then it makes more sense that she told Allan to tell Nita about his claimed role.
[10:39] spies8mary: Did she tell Allan to do that?
[10:40] spies8claude: I thought that was how it was explained
[10:40] spies8mary: I thought Allan claimed to make nicey-nice with Nita.
[10:40] spies8claude: But I could be remembering incorrectly.
[10:40] spies8mary: She was on his back and
[10:40] spies8mary: But regardless
[10:40] spies8mary: I can't imagine a Citizen telling a role to claim to a third party.
[10:41] spies8mary: I haven't seen that stated.
[10:41] spies8claude: I'll do some research on it.
[10:41] spies8mary: It seems like "get a roleholder killed" would be a logical secret agent mission.
[10:42] spies8mary: Or "Get a Citizen roleholder killed."
[10:42] spies8claude: maybe
[10:42] spies8claude: I don't really see the use in that kind of speculation, honestly.
[10:42] spies8mary: Would you have outed Nita?
[10:43] spies8claude: Yes.
[10:43] spies8claude: The entire playerbase trusted her, when she really should not have been trusted.
[10:43] spies8mary: Same here.
[10:43] spies8mary: So one question is, why didn't Jenny out her.
[10:44] spies8claude: I can't see any Citizen just keeping that under wraps.
[10:45] spies8mary: I agree. Jenny's arguments are posted though, and it's just tough to see why a Spy wouldn't have avoided all this mess to begin with.
[10:46] spies8claude: Well
[10:46] spies8mary: spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=burg&thread=893&post=4826
[10:48] spies8mary: I'm starting to wonder whether Lilith is a spy.
[10:48] spies8claude: I don't see anything indicating that she is.
[10:48] spies8mary: This is the second time I've seen her say "It explains to me why Nita wasn't targetted earlier."
[10:48] spies8claude: ?
[10:49] spies8mary: spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=burg&thread=826&post=5014
[11:07] spies8claude: The whole thing makes so little sense to me.
[11:11] spies8claude: The way that Jenny handled Allan claiming vs. how she handled Nita claiming is also troubling.
[11:11] spies8mary: How so?
[11:12] spies8claude: I mean like..she outed Allan, but, not Nita?
[11:12] spies8mary: Nita wasn't in danger of Exile.
[11:12] spies8mary: Allan arguably was.
[11:12] spies8claude: Nita also claimed a role that would inevitably end up hurting the town.
[11:12] spies8mary: Yes.
[11:13] spies8mary: I agree with you utterly. Jenny did not handle the Nita situation like a Citizen should/would.
[11:13] spies8claude: Blah.
[11:13] spies8claude: Yeah.
[11:13] spies8claude: I don't want to try to figure this out today really, I'd rather lynch Isaac and try to work it out from there.
[11:13] spies8mary: Right.
[11:14] spies8mary: A spy would use Nita til she got on to other Spies.
[11:14] spies8mary: And then poof.
[11:15] spies8claude: I'm not even sure I believe Jenny, heh.
[11:16] spies8mary: There's no way she made up all that.
[11:16] spies8claude: It's just so convenient.
[11:16] spies8mary: There could be lies in it, but the core of the story must have happened.
[11:17] spies8mary: I just don't get how a Citizen doesn't pin Nita down on all her tasks.
[11:17] spies8claude: Or at least try to..
[11:17] spies8mary: And if Jenny catches Nita doing anything anti-Cit, she outs her.
[11:17] spies8claude: How hard is it to say 'tell me your tasks or I'll out you'
[11:24] spies8mary: Chance is a Spy.
[11:25] spies8claude: I'm already of that opinion..
[11:25] spies8mary: He made, or tried to make an extensive case on you.
[11:25] spies8mary: He's not done a single thing since then.
[11:25] spies8mary: And he's rested on that case.
[11:25] spies8mary: Which sucks.
[11:26] spies8claude: lol
[11:32] spies8claude: Lilith does bring up one good point re: Jenny, though.
[11:33] spies8claude: Why would a spy ever come forward with that information(about Nita).
[11:33] spies8mary: That's what I was trying to tell you earlier.
[11:33] spies8mary: When you weren't understanding me.
[11:34] spies8mary: spies8mary: I thought my Jenny case was rock solid until this Nita thing came up.
spies8mary: Do you think the Spies would have planned it this way for her?
[11:34] spies8mary: spies8mary: The Spies had to decide whether Jenny should admit her Nita situation or not.
spies8mary: The alternative would be "cover it up and say nothing".
[11:34] spies8claude: I just don't see what the benefit is if she is a Spy.
[11:35] spies8mary: Right, unless they are so crafty that they worked all this out ahead of time.
[11:35] spies8claude: I guess
[11:35] spies8mary: And gambled that it would make Jenny look good.
[11:35] spies8claude: Like, that is definitely possible.
[11:35] spies8claude: But it's a pretty convoluted gamble.
[11:36] spies8mary: That's exactly why I've backed off Jenny.
[11:36] spies8claude: I don't want to lynch her over Isaac anyway.
[11:36] spies8mary: It's a terrible piece of evidence to rely on because it's WIFOM or whatever.
[11:36] spies8mary: Right.
[11:36] spies8mary: I would have considered Chance over Isaac.
[11:36] spies8mary: But right now it's all Isaac.
[11:36] spies8claude: Me too obviously.