spies8claude (19:23:42): Then he started in on you.
spies8broderick (19:23:46): Bickering?
spies8chance (19:24:0): yeah. remember the molehills conversatoin?
spies8chance (19:24:3): *conversation
spies8broderick (19:24:16): I wouldn't call that bickering.
spies8chance (19:24:20): i would.
spies8chance (19:24:52): too serious to be joking, but too frivolous to be arguing. bickering.
spies8chance (19:24:55):
spies8broderick (19:25:5): Fine. You were bickering at me, where as I was not
spies8chance (19:25:27): yeah i'm not going to argue with you about this as it's pointless.
spies8chance (19:25:37): claude - you never really responded to my second point against you.
spies8claude (19:25:40): At any rate. I did not 'deflect' onto Camilla, as the topic of conversation had changed away from me.
spies8chance (19:25:41): you basically just acknowledged it.
spies8claude (19:25:50): Which point, the thing about Tina?
spies8broderick (19:25:54): It is a misrepresentation
spies8chance (19:26:9): i disagree.
spies8chance (19:26:21): marge, are you here?
spies8chance (19:26:30): ....
spies8claude (19:26:31): lol
spies8chance (19:26:45): is it bad that i kind of want to vote her now? sigh.
spies8claude (19:27:2): Vote her based on what, she's done nothing so far.
spies8broderick (19:27:6): For what reason?
spies8chance (19:27:20): it was a joke. lighten up.
spies8chance (19:27:24): seriously.
spies8broderick (19:28:16): Add a luagh next time
spies8chance (19:28:17): hm, she says she didn't mean to disconnect.
spies8chance (19:28:45): welcome back.
spies8margot (19:28:50): thanks
spies8margot (19:28:58): my aim is a piece of shit everyone, just so you know
spies8chance (19:29:8): heh.
spies8claude (19:29:17): Here, how about this gem by Camilla:
spies8claude (19:29:18): Okay one, I disagree with lynching someone who is clearly not a spy. I do agree with lynching someone that is entirely unhelpful and is feckless in the long run, regardless of alignment.
spies8chance (19:29:19): so do you have any thoughts so far, marge?
spies8claude (19:29:35): There is no consistency between those two statements. Absolutely none.
spies8chance (19:29:47): i don't see a problem with them.
spies8claude (19:29:49): lol
spies8claude (19:29:52): come on, honestly?
spies8margot (19:30:14): i'm rereading the chat on the board right now that was posted. trying to see what that sort of debate was earlier between you and claude
spies8claude (19:30:35): In one sentence, she says 'I disagree with lynching someone who is clearly not a spy'. In the very next sentence, she says 'I agree with lynching someone who is unhelpful, regardless of alignment'
spies8claude (19:30:43): But you see no contradiction? Really?
spies8claude (19:30:56): Pretty sure the 'regardless of alignment' bit should be a big clue.
spies8chance (19:31:7): not really.
spies8chance (19:31:24): an unhelpful person could be a citizen or a spy, right?
Spies8Awohali (19:31:38): ^
spies8broderick (19:31:39): Is Isaac having AIM issues as well?
spies8chance (19:31:49): apparently. i invited him, but nothing.
spies8margot (19:32:33): i understand what camilla was trying to say with that second sentence. if someone, regardless if they are a spy or citizen, isn't being helpful, then she's saying it would be okay to vote for them
spies8broderick (19:33:6): What would the definition of unhelpful be?
Spies8Awohali (19:33:20): Someone who does not help?
spies8margot (19:33:38): which seems to me based on some of the posts in our forum would be me : /
spies8claude (19:33:54): I get that.
spies8claude (19:33:58): and that sentiment is fine.
spies8chance (19:34:4): yeah... i don't know how much of that is your aim, though, since it's apparently crap.
spies8claude (19:34:14): Except that immediately before it, she said 'I dsagree with lynching someone who is clearly not a Spy'
spies8chance (19:34:16): i would like you to speak up more, though.
spies8lawrence (19:34:16): Wouldn't someone whi is clearly no a spy be helpful by definition?
spies8claude (19:34:43): Not necessarily, and that is pretty obviously not what she meant, or she would have simply said as much and saved alot of grief.
spies8broderick (19:34:50): Someone who is here, yet not here. Not contributing. Would that be unhelpful?
spies8chance (19:34:56): yes, it would.
spies8claude (19:35:5): In my estimation, she tried to work out a way to make both sentences make sense, but failed.
spies8broderick (19:35:14): Someone who is here, contributing yet is not voting. Unhelpful?
spies8chance (19:35:23): um, claude, the sentences make sense to everyone but you, so...
spies8claude (19:35:28): Not voting doesn't make a person unhelpful.
Spies8Awohali (19:35:28): But, Claude, wouldn't someone who is unhelpful not be a clear citizen?
spies8claude (19:35:33): It just makes them cautious.
spies8broderick (19:35:37): but then does that not place assumption that contributing = helpful?
spies8broderick (19:35:56): What if their contribution is merely a facade? Has not meat to it?
spies8chance (19:36:19): then if they're a spy, they're catchable.
spies8chance (19:36:26): you can't do that with someone who's around but not talking.
spies8gertrude (19:37:34): I'm bacl
spies8gertrude (19:37:36): back*
spies8broderick (19:37:42): Hi Gertie
spies8margot (19:37:49): hey gertrude
spies8chance (19:37:50): 'sup gertie.
spies8gertrude (19:37:50): Hi!
spies8gertrude (19:38:2): It looks like I'm back at a good time
spies8gertrude (19:38:23): because I have something to say on the matter of whether or not to lynch unhelpful people, etc.
spies8gertrude (19:39:2): Now, I'm only saying this because no one else has, it doesn't really reflect my views on the matter
Spies8Awohali (19:39:50): The dramatic pause has ensued.
spies8gertrude (19:40:7): But wouldn't someone who feels we need to lynch unhelpful people over active, yet suspicious people want to lynch Lilith? She's virtually not been here at all.
spies8gertrude (19:40:13): And I realize that's a scheduling issue, but I'm someone shocked that people haven't mentioned her.
spies8gertrude (19:40:22): somewhat*
spies8gertrude (19:40:35): Dramatic pause unintentional.
spies8chance (19:40:49): i wouldn't. lil hasn't even had the chance to prove whether or not she's going to be helpful. she specifically said she was going to be away.
Spies8Awohali (19:40:58): I think in her case, she isn't inactive or unhelpful, but merely away. Since she has posted her being away ahead of time, she deserves a chance.
spies8chance (19:41:4): exactly.
spies8gertrude (19:41:20): Ok.
spies8chance (19:41:21): someone like mags though, who's just been a character without saying anything and has since lapsed into not showing up...
spies8gertrude (19:41:29): As long as we've addressed it.
spies8chance (19:41:41): and marge, you're kind of in that category too until you start speaking up. sorry babe.
spies8margot (19:42:21): i understand, no hard feelings there
spies8margot (19:42:34): i'm trying to be more vocal
spies8chance (19:42:43): understandable and commendable.
spies8margot (19:42:46): i'm just a mental and insular kind of person in general who likes to mull things over
Spies8Awohali (19:42:51): Could I inquire to whom the nickname "Mags" applies to?
spies8margot (19:43:1): Magalie
spies8gertrude (19:43:3): Magalie, I believe her name is
spies8mary (19:43:4): I will try to come back after dinner.
spies8mary (19:43:10): Bye.
spies8chance (19:43:15): later mary.
spies8gertrude (19:43:17): Adieu!
spies8margot (19:43:21): later mary
Spies8Awohali (19:43:26): Oh yes, I forgot about her again.
spies8broderick (19:44:51): She said she was going to drink last night. Extreme hangover?
spies8chance (19:45:1): 'sup 'zac.
spies8margot (19:45:5): hey isaac
Spies8Awohali (19:45:6): That is a possibility.
spies8broderick (19:45:12): Hi Isaac
Spies8Awohali (19:45:12): Osiyo, Isaac.
spies8gertrude (19:45:15): Hey there, Isaac!
spies8isaac (19:45:29): Wow, it liked me that time...lol. Hello all
spies8lawrence (19:46:51): And to follow up on that question, Gertrude, that's where the penalty votesw come into play. Better to let them take themselves out/get replaced by someone active than to vote out ourselves, in my opinion.
spies8claude (19:47:18): It is the Moderator's job to take care of people that lurk
spies8claude (19:47:37): lynching lurkers is extremely bad, unless you have valid metagame analysis that indicates that they only lurk when they're scum.
spies8isaac (19:47:41): I agree with that. Don't want to vote out a sweet power role by accident.
spies8gertrude (19:48:6): Gotcha.
spies8claude (19:48:6): It's not even that so much, as that you can't get any information off of them.
spies8chance (19:48:10): yeah, and what happens when a crucial exile is taken over by a lurker that's finally gotten enough self votes to be lynched, hmm?
spies8lawrence (19:48:11): Well, lurk and not around are two different things. Background lurking is our job to watch for...but plain not beibg there is Sams job.
spies8broderick (19:48:17): Can a lurker not be under the 'unhelpful' category?
spies8chance (19:48:23): anyway.
spies8chance (19:48:34): i agree that it's sam's place to get rid of a lurker who's not around.
spies8isaac (19:48:41): all lurkers are unhelpful....lol
spies8claude (19:48:49): If you wagon someone and say 'it's because lurked', you gain nothing. Anyone can jump on that wagon, and you don't learn anything from it.
spies8broderick (19:48:50): Would that not then be an inactive, and not a lurker?
spies8chance (19:48:56): but someone who's around, but accruing penalty votes? unhelpful.
Spies8Awohali (19:48:57): It's just important that lurkers not last into the second half of the game.
spies8chance (19:49:3): that's a true statement, claude.
spies8claude (19:49:4): what is a penalty vote.
spies8chance (19:49:27): a penalty vote is accrued by a) not voting and b) not posting conversations in your confessional.
spies8claude (19:49:36): Hmm.
spies8chance (19:49:37): different numbers of votes depending on the offense.
spies8lawrence (19:49:41): if you don't vote, or don't post convos, you put some votes against yourself.
spies8claude (19:49:43): Suppose I should do a better job of the latter..
spies8chance (19:49:43): sam posted it somewhere.
spies8chance (19:49:47): right.
spies8claude (19:49:48): I'll go look for it.
spies8broderick (19:51:16): I need to get to the market before they close. Should be back in a lil bit.
spies8isaac (19:51:40): Buy something tasty, Later Broderick
spies8margot (19:51:40): Note! Of course you can copy/paste a entire conversation into your confessional to record it. You are strongly suggested to do this for all interesting, striking, or worthwhile conversations, and are required to post at least two full private AIM conversations per Episode. Failure to do so results in self-votes.
spies8chance (19:51:44): later brod.
spies8margot (19:51:49): was that what you were looking for, claude?
spies8margot (19:51:54): later, broderick
spies8gertrude (19:52:34): I do believe there's a specific thread dedicated to the activity we need to put forth and the penalties for not doing so.
spies8claude (19:52:40): Not exactly, but I found what I was looking for anyway.
spies8claude (19:52:48):
spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=announcements&action=display&thread=70spies8gertrude (19:52:59): Yes, that.
spies8claude (19:53:8): Just need to make sure to copy/paste a couple of conversations apparently.
spies8claude (19:53:10): Not a big deal.
spies8chance (19:54:35): actually, i was thinking just now (making a list of people in my confessional) and i realized - does anyone know what jas thinks?
spies8chance (19:54:37): like, at all?
spies8gertrude (19:54:59): I haven't seen her recently.
Spies8Awohali (19:55:14): I, too, am unfamiliar with her, of course I've not been around much myself.
spies8lawrence (19:55:16): I think last I heard was that she was considering the whole Claude/Cory issue.
spies8margot (19:55:23): i've talked with her, but i'll have to bring up the archives to see what she said
spies8lawrence (19:55:31): But that could have changed sice then.
spies8margot (19:55:34): during the claude/cory issue, yeah
spies8isaac (19:55:41): Ya, the claude Dory thing was the last I remember....that and sex...lol
spies8chance (19:56:8): it's always sex with her. she uses her character a lot.
spies8margot (19:56:20): of course now i see that my settings were set to not archive discussions : / i thought it was automatic
spies8margot (19:56:22): pos
spies8claude (19:56:28): Same, Margot.
spies8claude (19:56:35): I don't know why anyone would ever NOT want to archive
spies8claude (19:56:51): And most other IM software that I've used has this auto-enabled.
Spies8Awohali (19:57:30): Claude, did we not discuss with you earlier how you were not auto-archiving your chats?
spies8isaac (19:57:36): Maybe they assume all your conversations with people will be terrible and not worth while. Obviously though for a game like this such a feature is required
spies8claude (19:57:59): I fixed it earlier.
spies8lawrence (19:59:4): Well, I think I've hit my limit for the day. Will talk with you all again later.
spies8chance (19:59:8): later larry.
Spies8Awohali (19:59:18): Goodbye, Lawrence.
spies8claude (20:01:39): His limit must not be much
spies8margot (20:02:26): i'm going to be getting up early tomorrow for father's day, so i'm going to hit the hay
spies8margot (20:02:44): is there anything that needs to be cleared up?
spies8chance (20:03:1): what do you think about claude?
spies8margot (20:03:14): what do i think about claude
spies8chance (20:03:32): i dunno. that's why i'm asking.
spies8margot (20:03:40): i know, haha
spies8claude (20:03:47): You should just read the chat transcript from earlier, between Camilla and myself.
spies8margot (20:04:22): yeah, i've been reading that to see where you're coming from
spies8margot (20:04:55): i personally understand where you're coming from with what camilla said, but i'm also trying to see how what she said could have been interpreted
spies8margot (20:05:4): but that's just me. i try to look at all the angles usually
spies8margot (20:05:17): i do think you bring up valid points
spies8margot (20:05:20): and i respect that, really
spies8claude (20:06:10): Even if she was just misunderstood initially, it doesn't explain/excuse her attitude/actions towards me during chat
spies8chance (20:06:11): i hear a but coming.
spies8chance (20:06:28): she could just be hot-tempered. just sayin'.
spies8margot (20:06:36): *turns around* there's your but, chance ; )
spies8chance (20:06:50): har dee har har, har har.
spies8chance (20:07:4):
spies8margot (20:07:42): did you feel her attitude and actions against you were somewhat uncalled for, claude?
spies8claude (20:07:58): I feel that they were indicative of her being a Spy.
spies8claude (20:08:8): She reacted like she knew she was caught
spies8claude (20:08:23): Calling me names, accusing me of deflecting, OMGUS etc. These are mistakes that caught scum make.
spies8chance (20:08:41): honestly it sounds like you're just mad at her for calling you an idiot. once.
spies8chance (20:08:44): on that note i'm heading to bed.
spies8chance (20:08:47): 'night all.
spies8margot (20:09:5): okay, i see your point there
spies8margot (20:09:7): bye chance
spies8margot (20:09:38): how do you think a citizen should have reacted? obviously not as far as to call you an idiot like chance said or to deflect
spies8claude (20:11:2): I'm not personally offended by that. I've certainly been called once.
spies8claude (20:11:23): My point is that, in my experience, when people are suspicious of them, citizens make a genuine effort to understand that suspicion.
spies8claude (20:11:45): Scum know that they are, in fact, scum, and don't want said suspicion to be expounded upon, so they lash out.
spies8margot (20:12:3): right, okay. i understand
spies8margot (20:12:28): and this goes back to some of the posts indicating that i'm on some people's suspicions lists, and i can understand that
spies8margot (20:12:34): i haven't been as vocal or "around"
spies8claude (20:12:48): She also OMGUSed me, which is just another way of trying to discredit me, again.
spies8margot (20:12:49): but i am making an effort. like i said, i'm just a mental and insular person that wants to mull things over
spies8margot (20:13:10): OMGUS is an initialism for what exactly?
spies8margot (20:13:28): Oh My God, You Scum?
spies8gertrude (20:14:1): Suck.
spies8margot (20:14:18): ah, okay. thanks gertrude
spies8gertrude (20:14:27): No problem!
spies8claude (20:14:35): Oh My God, You Suck.
spies8margot (20:14:48): okay
spies8claude (20:14:56): In essence, it is just attacking the person attacking you.
spies8margot (20:15:6): okay, gotcha
spies8margot (20:15:38): i'm going to be heading off to bed now. hopefully i can chat with the majority of you later on tomorrow an hour or two before the live chat
spies8claude (20:15:47): you could probably get a more specific definition on a mafia wiki
spies8claude (20:15:50): okay ttyl
spies8margot (20:15:51): i should be home by 7 and be online at 8
spies8margot (20:16:9): okay, later you guys
Spies8Awohali (20:16:18): Goodnight, Margot.
Spies8Awohali (20:21:38): Things have gotten quiet in here, which is not condusive towards discovering Spies...
Spies8Awohali (20:22:29): So Claude is planning to vote for Camilla, Isaac is planning to vote for Claude, and Cory is planning to vote for Margot. Gertrude, Broderick, what about you?
spies8claude (20:22:29): Conversation is bound to quiet down ventually.
spies8claude (20:22:39): I'm already voting for Camilla.
Spies8Awohali (20:23:0): Yes, I figured as much.
spies8isaac (20:23:36): Still here by the way, just preoccupied doing somepaperwork. I
Spies8Awohali (20:24:2): Paperwork is certainly an invention of the devil.
spies8isaac (20:24:26): I completely agree....lol
spies8isaac (20:25:39): I does seem there are going to be a lot of last minutes vote come tomorrow. Noot many people are really sure yet
Spies8Awohali (20:26:54): I believe so. I for one will not make my decision until then. I have not seen any one suspect emerge as being particuarly better than any other one.
spies8isaac (20:29:51): Yes, it's currently hard to make a strong decision either way. Ideally some good chats and diescusions will come around tomorrow before the deadline but I'm afraid I'll be gone until close to or just after the deadline
Spies8Awohali (20:30:42): I also fear this, although I will make plans to be on for as much as I can.
Spies8Awohali (20:31:19): And I will go ahead and put it out there that if I can not find a great suspect, I will choose the least helpful or most harmful out of an even pool of players.
spies8isaac (20:31:25): Oh I made plane to be here....just seems the the gods at United air have other ideas..lol
spies8isaac (20:32:8): Has anyone here even talked to Maglie yet? I haven't even so much as said hi and was wondering?
spies8cory (20:55:59): Back
Spies8Awohali (20:56:19): Welcome back, Cory.
Spies8Awohali (20:58:51): I believe the action has died down for the night.
spies8cory (21:00:9): I think that might just be a good thing.
spies8cory (21:00:22): Wasn't exactly looking forward to walking into another drama fest.
spies8cory (21:00:32): I miss anything important?
Spies8Awohali (21:00:39): As someone who has missed the past two nights, I understandably disagree, but I see where you are comnig from.
Spies8Awohali (21:00:45): Not really, no... More of the same, mostly.
spies8broderick (21:16:9): I'm back
spies8cory (21:16:18): Yo
spies8broderick (21:16:56): Any parties?
Spies8Awohali (21:17:29): Two, in fact: Democrats and Republicans/.
spies8broderick (21:18:8): Heh. I meant active and interesting discussions lol
spies8cory (21:18:17): Lol.
Spies8Awohali (21:18:27): I'm afraid we're all out of those for the time being.
spies8broderick (21:18:49): Disappointing. Anyone new show up?
Spies8Awohali (21:19:4): You were gone when Margot appeare,d right?
spies8broderick (21:19:41): She was here when I left. Though she wasnt saying much if anything
Spies8Awohali (21:19:56): She began to talk more eventually, although she did not have a long stay.
Spies8Awohali (21:20:40): She appeared to side with Claude in Camilla having acting suspicious, although she did ask a few good questions of him.
spies8cory (21:21:27): I was gone for the whole debacle.
spies8cory (21:21:36): Will read the transcript, though
spies8cory (21:21:42): Since it's Margot and my vote is kind of on her. Heh.
Spies8Awohali (21:21:52): It is worth reading, I would think, especially in your case, for this reason
spies8claude (21:22:31): You should vote Camilla instead.
spies8broderick (21:23:33): Isnt attacking the person who is attacking you, chainsawing rather than OMGUSing?
spies8claude (21:23:41): naw
spies8claude (21:23:45): Well
spies8claude (21:23:51): I've never heard the term 'chainsawing'
Spies8Awohali (21:24:20): It brings back memories of my construction accident... But I have heard that term in regards to Mafia before.
spies8broderick (21:25:36): My understanding of OMGUSing has to do with merely voting for the person who voted for you. Simply that they voted for you.
spies8cory (21:25:56): Chainsawing is when you attack someone who is attacking player
spies8broderick (21:25:56): Doesn't include attacking, or reasons. Merely the vote itself.
spies8cory (21:26:1): Defense via proxy
spies8broderick (21:26:12): Attacking another player you mean?
spies8cory (21:26:20): Claude attacks me. You attack Claude
spies8cory (21:26:24): You are chainsaw defending me
spies8cory (21:26:26): Yeah sorry.
spies8broderick (21:26:36): Okay
spies8cory (21:26:53): Relatively new term. No clue how reliable it is.
spies8broderick (21:28:12): I wouldn't say new. I first heard it over two years ago.
Spies8Awohali (21:28:19): Claude, might I inquire as to how certain you feel about your votes on an average basis, in your history of Mafia experience?
Spies8Awohali (21:28:44): And what I mean by this is, are you on average fairly sure of your votes, torn, or uncertain?
spies8cory (21:28:46): It's about two years old
spies8cory (21:28:48): So relatively new
spies8cory (21:29:7): I know the guy who coined it. Lol.
spies8broderick (21:29:41): You should not of said that
spies8cory (21:29:53): I know of.
spies8cory (21:29:56): Many do
spies8cory (21:30:9): It's a well known fact
Spies8Awohali (21:30:25): It might better allow people to narrow down from where you have come, but I do not think divulging such information puts your allias at direct risk.
spies8cory (21:30:41): It really doesn't
spies8cory (21:30:49): It's on a wiki somewhere
spies8cory (21:30:55): Therefore it's common knowledge
spies8claude (21:30:56): I am generally pretty sure of my voting.
spies8claude (21:31:0): But not this sure!
Spies8Awohali (21:31:15): And are you generally correct with your votes?
spies8claude (21:32:3): Generally.
spies8claude (21:32:7): Like
spies8claude (21:32:14): Do you really expect me to say 'no' there?
Spies8Awohali (21:32:34): I would expect an honest answer, to be sure. Nothing more, nothing less.
Spies8Awohali (21:33:3): For instance, I am willing to say here that I am wrong as often as I am right, generally speaking, when it comes to my votes in past games.
Spies8Awohali (21:33:23): Some games I am on it, other games I am far from it. Hopefully this will be an on game.
spies8claude (21:35:7): Interesting.
Spies8Awohali (21:36:16): Interesting is better than Boring, so I can be thankful there.
spies8broderick (21:37:36): No one will ever have a perfect record
spies8cory (21:38:37): Lol: "I'm 50/50 on Cory because he tends to hoard for info and not give any out, that and he can be kind of pushy."
Spies8Awohali (21:38:40): My forefathers told tales of a great scum hunter whose vote was never wrong, but it is just a legend.
spies8cory (21:38:58): I have never once spoken to this woman
spies8broderick (21:39:5): Hoard for information?
spies8cory (21:39:37): Her reason for being 50/50 is kind of vague
spies8broderick (21:39:43): Since when is knowledge a bad thing?
spies8cory (21:40:2): I'm more curious how she formed the opinion
spies8cory (21:40:4): We've never conversed
spies8broderick (21:40:27): I assume this is Camilla?
spies8cory (21:40:30): Yeah
spies8broderick (21:40:36): My guess is she read the chat transcript
spies8broderick (21:40:41): You would have to ask her though.
spies8cory (21:41:0): Maybe. I wasn't really "hoarding information" seeing as I was under rapid gunfire, though
spies8cory (21:41:12): That was Claude's accusation
spies8cory (21:41:21): She was basically taking his word for it there
spies8broderick (21:41:30): 'hoarding'?
spies8cory (21:41:34): Looks bandwagony
spies8broderick (21:41:37): I actually have not heard that until now.
spies8claude (21:41:40): It is very bandwagonny
spies8claude (21:41:49): I thought I pointed that out already..
spies8cory (21:41:52): Lol Borderick, yeah it does sound kind of ridiculous
spies8cory (21:41:58): You probably have
spies8cory (21:42:1): I haven't read the chat yet
spies8cory (21:42:4): I've been in and out
spies8broderick (21:42:10): Pointed out hoarding?
spies8broderick (21:42:20): As far as I know, this is the first mention of it that I have seen.
spies8cory (21:42:21): No, I think he means that the stance is bandwagony
spies8cory (21:42:25): Is what he pointed out
spies8broderick (21:42:27): Oh
spies8broderick (21:42:30): Clarify!
spies8broderick (21:42:46): Claritin Clear
spies8cory (21:42:57): I'll let him. I don't want more he said she said drama.
spies8broderick (21:43:49): That would be your que Claude
spies8cory (21:44:3): I've never once spoken to her. How she can definitively say I am pushy and hoard information is mind boggling
spies8broderick (21:44:29): This reminds me. If you dont like being called names Claude. Why have you not said anything (as far as I know) in response to Claude calling you Clod, and arrogant?
Spies8Awohali (21:44:34): She could always be an undercover Jedi Knight.
spies8cory (21:44:43): Lol Clod
spies8broderick (21:44:58): *Chance calling you Clod
spies8claude (21:45:3): the context is different
spies8claude (21:45:17): He didn't call me 'idiot' in the heat of me calling him scum
spies8broderick (21:46:20): Why is name calling 'in the heat of you calling someone scum', suspicious?
spies8claude (21:47:55): Because it usually just means that you're trying to evoke an emotional response out of them
spies8broderick (21:49:3): Who is more likely to play with emotions? Citizens or spies?
spies8broderick (21:49:29): That really is not very accurate sentiment.
spies8broderick (21:49:55): Ignore those last two.
spies8claude (21:50:8): Logic is the tool of a citizen
spies8claude (21:50:12): Emotion is the tool of a spy.
spies8broderick (21:50:21): Are you saying that the scum would resort to name calling in the heat of being called scum; to evoke an emotional response out of the accuser?
spies8broderick (21:50:24): To what purpose?
Spies8Awohali (21:50:25): I agree. I've seen many citizens try to evoke emotional responses from Spies by placing them under pressure, but I have also seen Mafia do the same numerous times.
spies8broderick (21:50:48): I disagree with you Claude.
Spies8Awohali (21:51:24): As do I. Emotions being used as a tool is not indicative of allignment, as bnoth sides can use it effectively.
spies8claude (21:52:38): No.
spies8claude (21:52:44): Townies should never be emotional.
spies8claude (21:52:48): It accomplishes nothing.
spies8broderick (21:53:19): Should never and are never - not the same
Spies8Awohali (21:53:24): "Should" does not always coincide with what is.
spies8broderick (21:53:37): What Awohali said
spies8claude (21:53:42): It means what should be, which is enough. Everyone should try to play the best that they can.
Spies8Awohali (21:53:44): And what Broderick said, ha!
spies8claude (21:53:59): Example: What could a town Camilla hope to gain by calling me an idiot and calling me delusional?
spies8broderick (21:54:21): Repeat of what Awohali said.
Spies8Awohali (21:54:27): If she believes you are a Spy, she could have been hoping to get you into a flame war that would cause you to get angry and let something slip.
spies8broderick (21:54:33): What should happen, does not equate with what does happen
spies8claude (21:55:0): It doesn't matter.
Spies8Awohali (21:55:3): When people are angry, they are less logical and reasonable. It's not something I'd particularly employ myself, but it's something a Citizen could think is a good idea, whether they should or not.
spies8claude (21:55:6): You can't allow people to use that as an excuse.
spies8broderick (21:55:9): What doesn't matter?
spies8claude (21:55:13): Otherwise, that is what scum will do.
Spies8Awohali (21:55:31): That reasoning could apply to literally every single thing a Citizen does.
spies8cory (21:55:55): Citizens can and will get emotional
spies8cory (21:55:58): People are not robots.
spies8claude (21:56:3): They shouldn't
spies8claude (21:56:4): shrug
Spies8Awohali (21:56:9): Not every citizen is going to have perfect actions, perfect suspicions, and a perfect record, nor will they have perfect behavior.
spies8broderick (21:56:17): In my experience, the large majority of dramatic events/arguments occur between two townies.
spies8cory (21:56:25): It's not written on the wall, and emotions are naturally responses.
spies8cory (21:56:36): Therefore it's gonna happen, and often
spies8broderick (21:56:57): It makes me think Claude is a robot and reads from a manual.
spies8cory (21:56:58): That's what matters most. What is bound to happen
Spies8Awohali (21:57:3): Right. Whether or not you think it should happen, it will, and you must accept it.
spies8cory (21:57:4): Lol.
spies8claude (21:57:9): Honestly, how do you guys ever find scum
spies8claude (21:57:13): Pick a name from a hat?
spies8cory (21:57:16): Day by day.
spies8cory (21:57:28): Getting people emotional is my best tool.
spies8cory (21:57:32): That's when people make mistakes
Spies8Awohali (21:57:37): Exactly.
spies8cory (21:57:42): You get them out of their comfort zone and they'll respond
spies8broderick (21:57:43): It still irks me that you think it is natural for a person to talk about themselves with no prompting
Spies8Awohali (21:57:50): And Spies have a lot more to lose by making mistakes.
spies8cory (21:58:4): Emotions are huge in this game.
spies8broderick (21:58:8): They are
spies8claude (21:58:35): Maybe I should rephrase
spies8claude (21:58:47): Going out of your way to try and evoke an emotional response from a person is a common scum tactic
spies8claude (21:58:54): Mostly for reasons you've already stated.
spies8cory (21:59:0): Scum lie
spies8broderick (21:59:15): So do townies
spies8cory (21:59:16): They are more bound to make a mistake regarding that if they're emotional
Spies8Awohali (21:59:17): It is also a fairly common town tactic.
spies8broderick (21:59:19): Not all, but some do
spies8cory (21:59:23): It's less common
spies8claude (21:59:25): It is not, in fact, a common town tactic.
spies8cory (21:59:28): All probabilities
spies8claude (21:59:36): Scum are much less likely to 'slip up' in this manner
spies8claude (21:59:43): Because they are forever on guard.
spies8cory (21:59:54): That's where emotions come in.
Spies8Awohali (21:59:59): And sometimes constantly being on guard leads to stress, which leads to a shorter temper
spies8broderick (22:00:0): These alignments are played by people
spies8broderick (22:00:5): Not robots or soldiers
spies8claude (22:01:2): sigh
spies8claude (22:01:4): whatever you say
spies8cory (22:01:14): A sigh
spies8cory (22:01:16): I sense emotion
spies8cory (22:01:22): GET HIM
Spies8Awohali (22:01:27): If you wish to believe that we have some robots among the cast, that is OK, Claude.
spies8broderick (22:01:51): You yourself have been emotional. Heated.
spies8claude (22:02:2): I was never emotional about it.
spies8claude (22:02:16): I never acted irrationally, nor called Camilla names, etc.
spies8broderick (22:02:17): Emotional about being emotional?
spies8claude (22:02:24): I presented logical arguments.
spies8cory (22:02:31): I beg to differ!
spies8claude (22:02:35): Camilla reacted by calling me names.
spies8broderick (22:02:39): Typing in all caps tends to be a sign of emotion
spies8claude (22:02:41): Arugments that I perceived to be logical.
spies8claude (22:03:0): Typing in all caps is attempt at portraying relevance.
spies8broderick (22:03:2): Emotional does not necessarily mean illogical or irantional
spies8cory (22:03:4): I perceived calling your accusations against me as 'stupid' to be logical.
spies8broderick (22:03:5): irrational
spies8cory (22:03:15): Who gets to make the call?
spies8broderick (22:03:45): As far as I am concerned, typing in all caps represents YELLING
spies8broderick (22:04:1): Underling or italicizing or bolding represents stressed relevance
spies8broderick (22:04:11): Underlining
spies8claude (22:05:51): You are arguing semantics now
spies8broderick (22:06:27): Not really. It shows how and what I get when someone types in all caps.
spies8broderick (22:06:40): I perceive it as yelling, not 'portraying relevance'
Spies8Awohali (22:07:12): One could easily argue that yelling is "portraying relevance" in person. Still, it is an emotion.
spies8cory (22:07:36): IT IS NOT
spies8cory (22:07:39): Oops
spies8broderick (22:07:46): Don't yell
Spies8Awohali (22:07:52): You Spy, Cory!
spies8broderick (22:07:52): lol
spies8cory (22:07:55): Lol.
spies8cory (22:08:3): You got me.
Spies8Awohali (22:08:15): This makes my vote tomorrow much easier.
spies8broderick (22:08:24): Mine as well
spies8broderick (22:08:29): I think I will make it right now
spies8cory (22:08:29): Mine as... wait a minute.
spies8broderick (22:11:8): Isaac and Lawrence. What do people think about them?
spies8broderick (22:11:46): For myself I have no solid read on either. I continually mistake one with the other. They are here, yet not here at the same time.
Spies8Awohali (22:12:2): I enjoyed conversing privbately with Lawrence today, but several reg flags arose during the conversation.
spies8cory (22:12:12): Lawrence seems alright, but I've only talked to him once
spies8cory (22:12:18): Isaac, I get a weird vibe from him
spies8cory (22:12:22): Seems excessively wordy
Spies8Awohali (22:12:26): He was chatting with me, and reading the chat room, but never said a word in the chat room, which would appear as lurking.
spies8cory (22:12:28): Careful with what he says
spies8cory (22:12:36): Lawrencelot?
Spies8Awohali (22:12:47): Indeed, the mighty knight himself.
Spies8Awohali (22:13:15): He also apparently "disappeared" to Mary when she asked him a few questions, yet he was talking with me during this time.
Spies8Awohali (22:13:37): He then later left without answering her, as far as I know.
spies8broderick (22:13:37): Lawrence I only spoke with this morning. He commended me on my post and how it made it simpler to process the full chat. I think he decided his suspect via that chat.
spies8broderick (22:14:29): Isaac is 'always catching up on the chat'. Yet rarely ever contributes to the chat.
spies8broderick (22:14:32): Group chat that is
spies8cory (22:15:0): Yeah
Spies8Awohali (22:15:1): I often wonder, when people are constantly doing this, if they are falling behind due to Spy chats.
spies8cory (22:15:14): Eh, sometimes it's understandable
spies8cory (22:15:16): I was doing it earlier.
Spies8Awohali (22:15:28): Lawrence actually commented on needing to catch up in the chat several times, although other times he was actively seeing what was going on.
spies8cory (22:15:29): When it's fast pace it is difficult to keep up unless you're involved.
spies8cory (22:15:31): But times like this, not really
spies8broderick (22:16:47): Yes. Definitely true concerning the fast pace if you are not involved.
spies8cory (22:17:48): I think I saw more from Isaac in chat than Lawrence
Spies8Awohali (22:18:26): Isaac has also contributed more to the forum.
spies8broderick (22:27:25): No opinions Claude?
spies8claude (22:28:16): hmmm?
spies8claude (22:28:58): opinions on what, sorry?
spies8broderick (22:29:6): Isaac and Lawrence
spies8claude (22:30:13): I dunno
spies8claude (22:30:24): Isaac seems content to sit in the background and just take pot shots at people
spies8claude (22:30:29): Which bugs me.
spies8claude (22:30:35): I haven't seen much from lawrence.
spies8broderick (22:31:39): are your top two suspects Camilla followed by Cory?
spies8broderick (22:31:43): Any other people, changes?
spies8claude (22:32:19): This feels like somewhat of a 180, but Chancei s starting to bug me.
spies8claude (22:32:45): Nothing particularly concrete there though.
spies8broderick (22:34:37): Bugging equates to suspicion?
spies8broderick (22:34:42): How is he bugging you?
spies8claude (22:35:15): Hard to say exactly.
spies8claude (22:36:10): The way he tried to turn his mistake(about the timing of the tina/cory thing) into an attack on me seemed dubious, and the way he tried to downplay your debate with him earlier.
spies8claude (22:36:25): And he really should have let Camilla defend herself.
spies8claude (22:36:39): Defending someone else in the manner that he did makes it extremely difficult to find scum.
spies8broderick (22:37:30): He should of. She is quite capable of speaking for herself. I asked you about that but you never responded
spies8claude (22:37:49): Oh, I must have missed that.
spies8broderick (22:38:7): If by debate you mean suspicions
spies8claude (22:38:25): It's just a shady thing to do. How people react to things, particularly questions/pressure against them, is a big way to tell if they're scum/town.
spies8broderick (22:38:32): Was he in the group chat discussing my post earlier today?
spies8broderick (22:38:40): Sorry for the side question
spies8claude (22:38:43): He tried his hardest to rob me of the chance to do that with her.
spies8claude (22:38:52): When?
spies8broderick (22:41:13): Earlier today. When I logged on, he IMed me wanting to discuss my post. Then admitted he had told a few people that "but a couple of the points you had against me seemed really fragile, for lack of a better word."
spies8broderick (22:42:2): I also recall Jasmine mentioned he called me a spy I believe and he corrected her. So I was wondering if someone had that chat transcript so I can see what he said
spies8claude (22:42:10): Oh.
spies8claude (22:42:14): I must have missed that, sorry
spies8claude (22:42:25): But Cinnamyn also made reference to him calling you a spy in one of her forum posts.
spies8broderick (22:43:25): Huh
spies8claude (22:43:44): Well
spies8claude (22:43:47): I don't want to misspeak there
spies8claude (22:43:56): She might not have used those words exactly.
spies8claude (22:44:5): But something along those lines; you can look it up in the forums.
spies8broderick (22:45:42): I will
spies8broderick (22:49:42): how was he downplaying my suspicions?
spies8claude (22:51:52): When he was referring to your argument as 'bickering' and you 'making a mountain out of a molehill'
spies8broderick (22:57:2): Oh.Was that even in regards to my comments about him?
spies8broderick (22:57:21): I rather thought his mountain out of a molehill comment was about my hesaid stuff
spies8claude (22:57:27): lol
spies8claude (22:57:35): No, it was in regard to your comments about him, I'm pretty sure.
spies8broderick (23:00:14): spies8broderick (16:03:23): My suggestion. Dont put words into the mouths of others Chance.
spies8chance (16:03:59): my suggestion. don't make mountains out of molehills, broderick.
spies8claude (16:04:9): So why are you 50/50 on Cory, Camilla?
spies8camilla (16:04:12): what if its a large molehill.
spies8broderick (16:04:14): Im not making a mountain out of a molehill Chance
spies8chance (16:04:18): aren't you?
spies8chance (16:04:45): i think we can all agree that cory can be kinda pushy. cory himself admitted that he's 'abrasive'. so does it really matter who said it first?
spies8broderick (16:04:51): It is a serious issue. We are trying to hunt for spies here. But if things get muddled because people are putting words into the mouths of others. It is extremely messy and quite frustrating to sort through
spies8claude (16:05:16): See, I told you Broderick is a citizen
spies8camilla (16:05:18): I'm 50/50 on Cory because he tends to hoard for info and not give any out, that and he can be kind of pushy. I'm not agreeing that the whole abrasiveness thing can be a factor, but something about him seems off.
spies8broderick (23:00:28): spies8broderick (16:03:23): My suggestion. Dont put words into the mouths of others Chance.
spies8chance (16:03:59): my suggestion. don't make mountains out of molehills, broderick.
spies8broderick (23:00:33): Just for kicks
spies8broderick (23:00:51): spies8claude (16:04:9): So why are you 50/50 on Cory, Camilla?
spies8camilla (16:04:12): what if its a large molehill.
spies8broderick (16:04:14): Im not making a mountain out of a molehill Chance
spies8chance (16:04:18): aren't you?
spies8chance (16:04:45): i think we can all agree that cory can be kinda pushy. cory himself admitted that he's 'abrasive'. so does it really matter who said it first?
spies8broderick (16:04:51): It is a serious issue. We are trying to hunt for spies here. But if things get muddled because people are putting words into the mouths of others. It is extremely messy and quite frustrating to sort through
spies8claude (16:05:16): See, I told you Broderick is a citizen
spies8camilla (16:05:18): I'm 50/50 on Cory because he tends to hoard for info and not give any out, that and he can be kind of pushy. I'm not agreeing that the whole abrasiveness thing can be a factor, but something about him seems off.
spies8claude (23:02:56): Seems like he is saying that you're making a mountain out of a molehill by telling him not to put words into others mouths.
spies8broderick (23:04:5): For kicks was you questioing Camilla about her 50/50 on Cory
spies8claude (23:06:34): Yeah
spies8claude (23:06:58): I really like she was just jumped on the bandwagon there.
spies8broderick (23:10:19): I am rather disappointed that no one asked her about her 'hoard' usage.
spies8cory (23:17:34): Alright kiddos
spies8cory (23:17:38): The Philosoraptor is going to sleep.
spies8cory (23:17:50): I'll be on plenty before exile.
spies8cory (23:17:54): Good night.
..
