episode 3 conversations
Jul 1, 2010 9:09:38 GMT -6
Post by Dane on Jul 1, 2010 9:09:38 GMT -6
Lilith:
Tuesday, June 29, 2010
spies8lilith (10:43:06 PM): Ok, just by the way you and Jasmine are talking. My current read is that you both are innocent. And I am fairly confident Zed and Stephanie are spies. I really have no connections to anyone (being new and all) and barely anyone to talk to about my suspcions so I'm just going to bounce them off you and Dane and see what yall say, lol.
spies8dane (10:44:07 PM): copy and paste much dear?
spies8dane (10:44:09 PM): i'm dane
spies8dane (10:44:13 PM): who's you?
spies8lilith (10:44:33 PM): I'm a replacement :-P.
spies8lilith (10:44:38 PM): And what is wrong with copying and pasting?
spies8lilith (10:44:47 PM): lol
spies8dane (10:45:06 PM): not you you, the you and dane you
spies8lilith (10:45:55 PM): I apoligize, I wanted to talk quick to you and Jasmine, because so far everyone I've heard speak sounded so cold and distant and hard to get a read on them.
spies8lilith (10:46:10 PM): From how you and Jasmine are typing, I'm fairly certain you're both innocent, lol.
spies8dane (10:47:13 PM): sounds good, but I gotta head out, its 11 here
spies8lilith (10:47:19 PM): ahhhh
spies8dane (10:47:19 PM): talk tomorrow?
spies8lilith (10:47:19 PM): ok
spies8lilith (10:47:22 PM): Yes :-).
spies8dane (10:47:25 PM): k :-)
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
spies8lilith (2:43:28 PM): Hello Dane. :-)
spies8dane (2:43:35 PM): hey lilith
spies8dane (2:44:04 PM): so you suspect stephanie and who?
spies8lilith (2:44:57 PM): Oh
spies8lilith (2:45:03 PM): I don't suspect her that much anymore, lol.
spies8dane (2:45:10 PM): oh?
spies8lilith (2:45:13 PM): I talked to her and am unsure now
spies8lilith (2:45:37 PM): Something she said triggered to me as odd. But after socializing with her and getting a better read on her, I less likely think it's her.
spies8dane (2:45:46 PM): anything specific?
spies8lilith (2:45:51 PM): The thing she said was me basing my theory on Zed being mafia and her defending him (indirectly).
spies8dane (2:46:08 PM): interesting
spies8dane (2:46:13 PM): who was your other suspect?
spies8lilith (2:46:16 PM): Zed :-P
spies8dane (2:46:29 PM): still suspect him?
spies8lilith (2:46:53 PM): I am basing my strategy and my reads by talking to people and how they react. The HQ thing was interesting, I didn't make a huge leap that he is mafia from that, but how he reacted when I spoke to him about it.
spies8lilith (2:47:05 PM): He just acts like he can brush it off and it isn't a big deal and to me that sits uneasy.
spies8lilith (2:47:35 PM): Although, several people seem to let it slide, so to me, atleast some of those people are town, and so some town are letting it slide makes me question what I am doing, lol. But I still think it's something to look into.
spies8lilith (2:47:45 PM): And also, Sav, who we know is a citizen, suspected Zed.
spies8dane (2:48:15 PM): it is definitely something to not allow to be brushed to the side
spies8lilith (2:48:19 PM): I like to look at dead people's ideas :-P. Because those people's ideas we know are from a town's viewpoint. While talking to people on here, anyone could have a spy viewpoint trying to shake things up.
spies8lilith (2:50:09 PM): What are your thoughts?
spies8lilith (2:50:15 PM): I forgot to press enter, lol
spies8dane (2:50:29 PM): I still suspect stephanie, themba, and zed a little
spies8dane (2:50:31 PM): maybe jasmine
spies8dane (2:50:40 PM): it's all kind of up in the air it seems like
spies8lilith (2:50:48 PM): Why do you suspect them?
spies8dane (2:51:23 PM): themba freaked out when I said I suspected her, she flipflopped votes, and switched to zed when it looked like a counter wagon was forming
spies8dane (2:51:32 PM): switched OFF of Alexei, ONTO zed
spies8lilith (2:51:54 PM): I'm actually analyzing you by how you explain your suspcions ;-). I feel mafia can't fake the sincerity that a townsperson has. And I'm telling you this so if you are mafia it'll make you more nervous in your explanation, lol.
spies8dane (2:52:40 PM): Stephanie had really bad reasons for all her "suspicions" (you can read up on that in former republican posts), she and alexei tried to start a counterwagon on me when a bandwagon formed on him, and my gut suspects her
spies8dane (2:53:08 PM): Zed for obvioius reasons (HQ, 2 hour silence)
spies8lilith (2:53:21 PM): O i keep forgetting about that silence thing, lol
spies8dane (2:53:28 PM): and Jasmine seems off to me based on how she was defending Claude
spies8lilith (2:53:50 PM): Who is Claude? :-P
spies8lilith (2:54:03 PM): Someone from the other team obviously, but like, what happened?
spies8dane (2:54:13 PM): Claude role claimed
spies8dane (2:54:20 PM): "majority whip"
spies8dane (2:54:28 PM): he uses it on someone
spies8dane (2:54:33 PM): and that person cannot vote or be voted
spies8lilith (2:54:43 PM):
interesting
spies8lilith (2:54:45 PM): did he use it?
spies8dane (2:54:46 PM): or he can make it so a person can only vote between like 3 people
spies8dane (2:54:50 PM): etc.
spies8dane (2:54:53 PM): he did
spies8dane (2:54:59 PM): on the person he accused of being a spy
spies8dane (2:55:02 PM): and who was accusing him
spies8dane (2:55:16 PM): so again: he made the person he thought was a spy unvotable
spies8lilith (2:55:32 PM): i don't think a mafia would have the power to make a spy unvotable
spies8dane (2:55:36 PM): I do
spies8lilith (2:55:43 PM): Was it verified that he couldn't be voted for?
spies8dane (2:55:45 PM): it makes more sense than a citizen having it
spies8dane (2:55:46 PM): yes
spies8dane (2:55:50 PM): sam said he couldn't be voted
spies8lilith (2:55:54 PM): Ah
spies8lilith (2:55:55 PM): ok
spies8lilith (2:56:00 PM): Can he use it repeatedly?
spies8dane (2:56:03 PM): we don't know
spies8dane (2:56:15 PM): he didn't say]
spies8lilith (2:56:15 PM): If he can use it repeadedly, that'd be too strong for a mafia.
spies8dane (2:56:22 PM): not necessarily
spies8dane (2:56:37 PM): there might (and probably is) be a counter role among the cits able to stop it
spies8dane (2:56:48 PM): thats how sam usually sets it up
spies8lilith (2:57:02 PM): That would still be unfair though, cuz that "counter role" could easily die and mafia have a huge advantage
spies8lilith (2:57:15 PM): The voting is the only time mafia can get executed, so by immuning them to taht it's kinda unfair :-P
spies8dane (2:57:28 PM): its not unfair
spies8dane (2:57:33 PM): it helpsthe spies
spies8dane (2:57:38 PM): thats the point of a spy power role
spies8dane (2:57:42 PM): it doesn't help citizens
spies8dane (2:57:49 PM): so it is unlikely to be a citizen power role
spies8lilith (2:57:52 PM): But it helps the spies too much if it makes them immune to a vote
spies8dane (2:58:11 PM): then what kind of role COULD the spies have to use that wouldn't be unfair
spies8dane (2:58:23 PM): or maybe the thing can't be used on another spy, and only citizens
spies8lilith (2:58:28 PM): Anything that doesn't make them immune to a vote, lol
spies8dane (2:58:38 PM): but the only way spies can be hurt is by being voted
spies8dane (2:58:54 PM): so a power role for them would be to protect themselves
spies8dane (2:59:15 PM): hell, citizens already have a way to prevent the doctor and the captain burg from ever being imprisoned
spies8dane (2:59:18 PM): thats hardly fair to the spies
spies8lilith (2:59:51 PM): But it could be anything, like a cop that finds town power roles, or something the blocks other roles, or maybe an extra vote here or there or coming up innocent to a cop
spies8dane (3:00:07 PM): but the role was already claimed
spies8lilith (3:00:09 PM): we can prevent the dr. from being imprisoned?
spies8dane (3:00:10 PM): it helps the spies
spies8dane (3:00:23 PM): yeah, if captain burg gets saved, then captain burg can save the doctor
spies8lilith (3:00:36 PM): what is Captain Burg? lol
spies8dane (3:00:40 PM): -_-
spies8dane (3:00:46 PM): you've got some reading to do my dear
spies8dane (3:00:58 PM): go read up on Allan's power role
spies8lilith (3:01:02 PM): I'm a replacement, the expecation to read everything is unreasonable.
spies8lilith (3:02:18 PM): ?
spies8dane (3:02:38 PM): thats why i'm saying you need to read up on the important things like role claims
spies8dane (3:02:41 PM): go look at Allan's
spies8lilith (3:02:48 PM): I don't know where it is :-P.
spies8dane (3:03:16 PM): you can't expect everyone to fill you in on everything, you gotta be reading through the burg and trying to catch up
spies8dane (3:03:22 PM): at least skimming
spies8lilith (3:03:53 PM): I am atleast skimming. Telling me to "go look something up" seems a little insensative. Not assisting me seems lazy on your part when I've only asked one question to you about the past.
spies8dane (3:04:13 PM): that is certainly not the only thing
spies8dane (3:04:23 PM): since I just went in depth on CLAUDES role claim
spies8dane (3:04:47 PM): and it's not lazyness on my part
spies8lilith (3:04:59 PM): So you expect me to go look up everything everyone talks about? That's a bit counterproductive when the quicker way would be to explain it.
spies8dane (3:05:30 PM): no, but if you were skimming through things, you might pick up on something major like a role claim
spies8lilith (3:06:17 PM): I haven't been able to skim through everything. There is so much stuff. Plus, with trying to get to know just the people that are relevant to me at the moment, analyzing the other team seems kind of pointless at this moment to me when I have a bunch of others things to catch up on.
spies8dane (3:06:48 PM): allan was on the republicans
spies8dane (3:07:05 PM): so its in the forum for the republicans, aka our team
spies8lilith (3:07:26 PM): Yes, but stuff about him isn't relevant to me because even if I did gather suspscions I couldn't do anything about it at this moment.
spies8dane (3:07:27 PM): and it was a pretty major event
spies8dane (3:07:37 PM): since a lot of people only changed to savannah after he claimed
spies8dane (3:07:43 PM): end of episode 2
spies8dane (3:07:59 PM): but you need to know what already happened, at least the major events
spies8lilith (3:08:02 PM): No one has told me that part, lol.
spies8dane (3:08:43 PM): anyway
spies8lilith (3:08:49 PM): I don't think I need to know the major events, at this moment in time I am more focused on talking to people one-on-one and seeing how they react and talk so I can get a good judgment on them. Actions can only tell you so much, but it's more meaningful to know their motives.
spies8dane (3:08:51 PM): captain burg can use the actions used on him
spies8lilith (3:09:01 PM): O
spies8lilith (3:09:02 PM): That
spies8lilith (3:09:09 PM): I remember now.
spies8lilith (3:09:17 PM): Someone has a role that can use roles used on them.
spies8dane (3:09:26 PM): Actions can only tell you so much, but it's more meaningful to know their motives.
spies8dane (3:09:31 PM): definitely REALLY DISAGREE
spies8dane (3:09:42 PM): people can LIE about their motivations
spies8dane (3:09:47 PM): but their actions are EVIDENCE
spies8lilith (3:09:59 PM): Yes, but a liar can't fake the same sincerety a real person has about their motives.
spies8dane (3:10:01 PM): yes
spies8dane (3:10:02 PM): they
spies8dane (3:10:03 PM): can
spies8dane (3:10:12 PM): its an online chat
spies8lilith (3:10:12 PM): I want people to lie to me, that way I have the ability to read them for their lies.
spies8dane (3:10:16 PM): people can lie easily
spies8dane (3:10:19 PM): and sound convincing
spies8lilith (3:10:19 PM): Talking to people is the only way I'm going to figure things out.
spies8dane (3:10:25 PM): no, you need to read
spies8dane (3:10:27 PM): and analyze
spies8lilith (3:10:31 PM): I don't agree that they can be convincing if people know what to look for.
spies8lilith (3:11:01 PM): Like I've said, mafia can't fake the sincerety that town has in their suspecions and motives.
spies8dane (3:11:05 PM): yes they can
spies8dane (3:11:10 PM): its called lieing
spies8dane (3:11:12 PM): lying
spies8dane (3:11:13 PM): and bussing
spies8dane (3:11:18 PM): they do it
spies8dane (3:11:19 PM): all
spies8dane (3:11:21 PM): the fucking
spies8dane (3:11:22 PM): time
spies8lilith (3:11:25 PM): How can they fake the sincerety in it?
spies8dane (3:11:31 PM): because you can't hear their voice
spies8lilith (3:11:42 PM): You don't need to, you can see how they explain things.
spies8dane (3:11:45 PM): -_-
spies8dane (3:11:49 PM): you are being absurd
spies8lilith (3:11:55 PM): No I am not.
spies8dane (3:12:08 PM): there is no such thing as an online lie detector
spies8lilith (3:12:27 PM): There is such a thing as how someone explains things though.
spies8dane (3:12:38 PM): which changes based on a persons PERSONALITY
spies8lilith (3:12:38 PM): Mafia are going to explain things differently than a townsperson would.
spies8dane (3:12:41 PM): no
spies8dane (3:12:43 PM): they aren't
spies8lilith (3:12:45 PM): Yes.
spies8dane (3:12:47 PM): they want to blend in
spies8dane (3:12:55 PM): they'll explain the exact same way as a citizen
spies8dane (3:13:07 PM): and some citizens explain things different from other citizens
spies8lilith (3:13:12 PM): In the back of the mafia's mind, they know who the other mafia are. They can't fake the sincerety that other town people have in scumhunting and what not.
spies8dane (3:13:23 PM): YES
spies8dane (3:13:25 PM): THEY CAN
spies8dane (3:13:37 PM): I can't even talk to you
spies8lilith (3:13:44 PM): You can't fake sincerety. I think you are not understanding that concept.
spies8dane (3:13:45 PM): "can't fake the sincerity?"
spies8dane (3:13:50 PM): that is absurd
spies8lilith (3:13:54 PM): You can fake acting, yes, but you can't fake the sincerity that people have.
spies8dane (3:13:57 PM): absofuckinglutely absurd
spies8lilith (3:14:12 PM): It is not. Some people scumhunt with logic, I prefer to look at people's behavior.
spies8dane (3:14:21 PM): no you aren't
spies8dane (3:14:28 PM): you are looking at people's personalities
spies8dane (3:14:31 PM): not their behavior
spies8lilith (3:14:34 PM): It isn't their personalities.
spies8dane (3:14:35 PM): behavior depends on ACTIONS
spies8dane (3:14:45 PM): as in a behavior is made up of a persons ACTIONS
spies8lilith (3:14:47 PM): Explaining something in certain way IS an action.
spies8dane (3:15:12 PM): the act of an explanation is the action
spies8dane (3:15:17 PM): the WAY the explain is personality
spies8dane (3:15:30 PM): which is different from person to person
spies8dane (3:15:33 PM): NOT from citizen to spy
spies8dane (3:16:16 PM): I can't deal with you
spies8dane (3:16:17 PM): ttyl
spies8lilith (3:16:25 PM): Wait just a second.
spies8dane (3:16:29 PM): .
spies8lilith (3:17:00 PM): Right now, you are disagreeing with me about my playstyle. That is an action based on your PERSONALITY. I agree with that. How you disagree with me may depend on your alignment, although since this disagreement has nothing to do with your alignment or the game itself, moreso how we play the game, it doesn't tell me anything about your motives.
spies8lilith (3:17:54 PM): Although you are disagreeing with me and it is frustrating, it doesn't tell me anything about your alignment in this game and I would prefer we just ignore it, because I do have questions for you that I would like answered.
spies8dane (3:18:33 PM): thats fine, as long as they are not questions who's answers could easily be found by skimming the republican burg
spies8lilith (3:18:49 PM): It is questions about your actions, so no, it can't be found on the forum.
spies8lilith (3:18:59 PM): Reading through things two things sparked different ideas for me.
spies8lilith (3:19:45 PM): First, you made a comment about Alexei's case depending on Zed's. Which in my mind made me think perhaps you could be Alexei's partner and Zed not being mafia, and you were planting a seed that Zed be lynched first, come up innocent, and then erase a case on Alexei.
spies8dane (3:20:38 PM): I said that early on in episode 1, before Alexei started attacking both me and Zed
spies8lilith (3:21:02 PM): Why are you stating when you said it?
spies8dane (3:21:12 PM): and I wasn't apart of the zed or the alexei wagons originally
spies8dane (3:21:34 PM): because that was said early on, it wasn't actually a reasoning in my vote
spies8lilith (3:21:53 PM): My comment has nothing to do with what wagon you were on or who you voted though.
spies8dane (3:22:14 PM): what are you asking about then
spies8lilith (3:22:17 PM): Your statement, sounded to me, like a mafia statement trying to plant a seed that Zed should be voted off first in order to make Alexei's case valid.
spies8dane (3:22:57 PM): i said alexei was connected to zed. how does that say anything about which should be voted, if either was a spy, or anything else?
spies8dane (3:23:02 PM): I just said they were connected
spies8lilith (3:23:10 PM): You said Alexei's case depends on Zed.
spies8dane (3:23:22 PM): yeah, at that time, alexei threw in with zed
spies8dane (3:23:36 PM): and part of the case on alexei was how he reacted to zed's stuff
spies8dane (3:23:38 PM): aka
spies8dane (3:23:42 PM): they were connected
spies8lilith (3:23:43 PM): Aka, that suggests, what Zed's alignment is determines if there is a case on Alexei. Meaning that you would rather Zed go first and then determine if Alexei is a spy from there.
spies8dane (3:23:47 PM): and the case on alexei at that time
spies8dane (3:24:01 PM): again, you are jumping on a ship made of water: it isn't there
spies8dane (3:24:08 PM): I was never advocating a lynch of zed
spies8dane (3:24:23 PM): I wasn't advocating a lynch of alexei until near the end
spies8dane (3:24:35 PM): I did not contribute to the zedekiah case
spies8lilith (3:25:06 PM): I am not talking about who you advocated a lynch on. I'm talking about what, looks to me, a seed that you were trying to plant in people's minds. If nobody agreed then you would let it go, but it looks like an attempt to throw the case off of Alexei and onto Zed.
spies8dane (3:25:59 PM): you are really lost. I VOTED ALEXEI.
spies8lilith (3:26:08 PM): I am not talking about who you voted for.
spies8dane (3:26:12 PM): yes you are
spies8lilith (3:26:21 PM): I am not... --_--
spies8dane (3:26:21 PM): "but it looks like an attempt to throw the case off of alexei"
spies8lilith (3:26:27 PM): Exactly.
spies8dane (3:26:28 PM): why would I do that
spies8dane (3:26:31 PM): AND VOTE THE FUCKER
spies8lilith (3:26:31 PM): I am talking about your actions
spies8lilith (3:26:35 PM): Not who you voted for.
spies8dane (3:26:47 PM): me voting is the action
spies8lilith (3:26:58 PM): That is not the action I am questioning you about though.
spies8dane (3:27:05 PM): an offhand comment saying two people were connected on the second or third day of the game is NOT an action
spies8lilith (3:27:15 PM): I don't care about who you voted for, I am asking about a comment you made that would indirectly throw the weight from Alexei to Zed.
spies8dane (3:27:22 PM): you NEED to care about who voted for who
spies8lilith (3:27:31 PM): That is not what I am looking for right now.
spies8dane (3:27:53 PM): and no my comment, being from someone uninvolved with either case, did not indirectly throw ANY weight around
spies8lilith (3:28:20 PM): You NEED to stop telling me what to do. I know what to look at and what to look for. Just because it is not convient to you does not make it wrong. People do things their own ways, I think it is very rude and immature for you to not respect that and treat people like they are wrong because of how they address the game.
spies8dane (3:28:36 PM): you do not know what to look at, since you are looking for "fake sincerity".
spies8lilith (3:28:52 PM): Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for me.
spies8lilith (3:28:57 PM): People look at things different ways.
spies8dane (3:28:58 PM): you are not a lie detector
spies8lilith (3:29:01 PM): People don't all play the game the same way.
spies8dane (3:29:07 PM): and believing you are means you tunnel
spies8dane (3:29:12 PM): meaning you hurt the citizens
spies8lilith (3:29:31 PM): You keep making assumptions and are not opening your minds to how other people play the game.
spies8lilith (3:29:43 PM): I am not sure where you get this assumption that I tunnel from.
spies8dane (3:29:51 PM): YOU ARE BASING YOUR SUSPICIONS OFF YOUR OPINION OF WHETHER PEOPLE ARE SINCERE INSTEAD OF OFF EVIDENCE
spies8lilith (3:30:23 PM): Evidence can be twisted and turned in any way. If a citizen makes a mistake, a mafia can jump on it, use logic, and turn people agains't that person.
spies8dane (3:30:26 PM): saying someone seemed insincere cannot be proven true or false or bussing or anything until alignment shows
spies8dane (3:30:34 PM): evidence is provable
spies8dane (3:30:46 PM): evidence is a lot harder to twist
spies8dane (3:30:51 PM): than someone's sincerity
spies8dane (3:30:55 PM): and I'm done discussing this
spies8lilith (3:30:56 PM): Provable sounds to me like you are basing people's gameplay on if they can convince other people who mafia is.
spies8dane (3:31:00 PM): no
spies8dane (3:31:14 PM): I'm saying if someone votes right when a counterwagon starts
spies8dane (3:31:16 PM): that fact
spies8dane (3:31:17 PM): right there
spies8dane (3:31:21 PM): is a piece of evidence
spies8dane (3:31:23 PM): irrefutable
spies8lilith (3:31:29 PM): Yes, but it can be twisted into anything.
spies8dane (3:31:32 PM): their MOTIVATION in doing so can be twisted
spies8dane (3:31:35 PM): not the fact itself
spies8dane (3:32:00 PM): this is wasting my time, because you don't listen and just assume you are correct
spies8dane (3:32:02 PM): bye
spies8lilith (3:32:03 PM): The motivation from them, is that person's reason. I feel like their reasoning can help me identify them as being honest or a liar.
spies8lilith (3:32:10 PM): I never said I was correct.
Thursday, July 01, 2010
spies8lilith (3:32:15 PM): You are the one telling me I am wrong.
spies8lilith (3:32:18 PM): I did not say you were wrong.
Tuesday, June 29, 2010
spies8lilith (10:43:06 PM): Ok, just by the way you and Jasmine are talking. My current read is that you both are innocent. And I am fairly confident Zed and Stephanie are spies. I really have no connections to anyone (being new and all) and barely anyone to talk to about my suspcions so I'm just going to bounce them off you and Dane and see what yall say, lol.
spies8dane (10:44:07 PM): copy and paste much dear?
spies8dane (10:44:09 PM): i'm dane
spies8dane (10:44:13 PM): who's you?
spies8lilith (10:44:33 PM): I'm a replacement :-P.
spies8lilith (10:44:38 PM): And what is wrong with copying and pasting?
spies8lilith (10:44:47 PM): lol
spies8dane (10:45:06 PM): not you you, the you and dane you
spies8lilith (10:45:55 PM): I apoligize, I wanted to talk quick to you and Jasmine, because so far everyone I've heard speak sounded so cold and distant and hard to get a read on them.
spies8lilith (10:46:10 PM): From how you and Jasmine are typing, I'm fairly certain you're both innocent, lol.
spies8dane (10:47:13 PM): sounds good, but I gotta head out, its 11 here
spies8lilith (10:47:19 PM): ahhhh
spies8dane (10:47:19 PM): talk tomorrow?
spies8lilith (10:47:19 PM): ok
spies8lilith (10:47:22 PM): Yes :-).
spies8dane (10:47:25 PM): k :-)
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
spies8lilith (2:43:28 PM): Hello Dane. :-)
spies8dane (2:43:35 PM): hey lilith
spies8dane (2:44:04 PM): so you suspect stephanie and who?
spies8lilith (2:44:57 PM): Oh
spies8lilith (2:45:03 PM): I don't suspect her that much anymore, lol.
spies8dane (2:45:10 PM): oh?
spies8lilith (2:45:13 PM): I talked to her and am unsure now
spies8lilith (2:45:37 PM): Something she said triggered to me as odd. But after socializing with her and getting a better read on her, I less likely think it's her.
spies8dane (2:45:46 PM): anything specific?
spies8lilith (2:45:51 PM): The thing she said was me basing my theory on Zed being mafia and her defending him (indirectly).
spies8dane (2:46:08 PM): interesting
spies8dane (2:46:13 PM): who was your other suspect?
spies8lilith (2:46:16 PM): Zed :-P
spies8dane (2:46:29 PM): still suspect him?
spies8lilith (2:46:53 PM): I am basing my strategy and my reads by talking to people and how they react. The HQ thing was interesting, I didn't make a huge leap that he is mafia from that, but how he reacted when I spoke to him about it.
spies8lilith (2:47:05 PM): He just acts like he can brush it off and it isn't a big deal and to me that sits uneasy.
spies8lilith (2:47:35 PM): Although, several people seem to let it slide, so to me, atleast some of those people are town, and so some town are letting it slide makes me question what I am doing, lol. But I still think it's something to look into.
spies8lilith (2:47:45 PM): And also, Sav, who we know is a citizen, suspected Zed.
spies8dane (2:48:15 PM): it is definitely something to not allow to be brushed to the side
spies8lilith (2:48:19 PM): I like to look at dead people's ideas :-P. Because those people's ideas we know are from a town's viewpoint. While talking to people on here, anyone could have a spy viewpoint trying to shake things up.
spies8lilith (2:50:09 PM): What are your thoughts?
spies8lilith (2:50:15 PM): I forgot to press enter, lol
spies8dane (2:50:29 PM): I still suspect stephanie, themba, and zed a little
spies8dane (2:50:31 PM): maybe jasmine
spies8dane (2:50:40 PM): it's all kind of up in the air it seems like
spies8lilith (2:50:48 PM): Why do you suspect them?
spies8dane (2:51:23 PM): themba freaked out when I said I suspected her, she flipflopped votes, and switched to zed when it looked like a counter wagon was forming
spies8dane (2:51:32 PM): switched OFF of Alexei, ONTO zed
spies8lilith (2:51:54 PM): I'm actually analyzing you by how you explain your suspcions ;-). I feel mafia can't fake the sincerity that a townsperson has. And I'm telling you this so if you are mafia it'll make you more nervous in your explanation, lol.
spies8dane (2:52:40 PM): Stephanie had really bad reasons for all her "suspicions" (you can read up on that in former republican posts), she and alexei tried to start a counterwagon on me when a bandwagon formed on him, and my gut suspects her
spies8dane (2:53:08 PM): Zed for obvioius reasons (HQ, 2 hour silence)
spies8lilith (2:53:21 PM): O i keep forgetting about that silence thing, lol
spies8dane (2:53:28 PM): and Jasmine seems off to me based on how she was defending Claude
spies8lilith (2:53:50 PM): Who is Claude? :-P
spies8lilith (2:54:03 PM): Someone from the other team obviously, but like, what happened?
spies8dane (2:54:13 PM): Claude role claimed
spies8dane (2:54:20 PM): "majority whip"
spies8dane (2:54:28 PM): he uses it on someone
spies8dane (2:54:33 PM): and that person cannot vote or be voted
spies8lilith (2:54:43 PM):
interestingspies8lilith (2:54:45 PM): did he use it?
spies8dane (2:54:46 PM): or he can make it so a person can only vote between like 3 people
spies8dane (2:54:50 PM): etc.
spies8dane (2:54:53 PM): he did
spies8dane (2:54:59 PM): on the person he accused of being a spy
spies8dane (2:55:02 PM): and who was accusing him
spies8dane (2:55:16 PM): so again: he made the person he thought was a spy unvotable
spies8lilith (2:55:32 PM): i don't think a mafia would have the power to make a spy unvotable
spies8dane (2:55:36 PM): I do
spies8lilith (2:55:43 PM): Was it verified that he couldn't be voted for?
spies8dane (2:55:45 PM): it makes more sense than a citizen having it
spies8dane (2:55:46 PM): yes
spies8dane (2:55:50 PM): sam said he couldn't be voted
spies8lilith (2:55:54 PM): Ah
spies8lilith (2:55:55 PM): ok
spies8lilith (2:56:00 PM): Can he use it repeatedly?
spies8dane (2:56:03 PM): we don't know
spies8dane (2:56:15 PM): he didn't say]
spies8lilith (2:56:15 PM): If he can use it repeadedly, that'd be too strong for a mafia.
spies8dane (2:56:22 PM): not necessarily
spies8dane (2:56:37 PM): there might (and probably is) be a counter role among the cits able to stop it
spies8dane (2:56:48 PM): thats how sam usually sets it up
spies8lilith (2:57:02 PM): That would still be unfair though, cuz that "counter role" could easily die and mafia have a huge advantage
spies8lilith (2:57:15 PM): The voting is the only time mafia can get executed, so by immuning them to taht it's kinda unfair :-P
spies8dane (2:57:28 PM): its not unfair
spies8dane (2:57:33 PM): it helpsthe spies
spies8dane (2:57:38 PM): thats the point of a spy power role
spies8dane (2:57:42 PM): it doesn't help citizens
spies8dane (2:57:49 PM): so it is unlikely to be a citizen power role
spies8lilith (2:57:52 PM): But it helps the spies too much if it makes them immune to a vote
spies8dane (2:58:11 PM): then what kind of role COULD the spies have to use that wouldn't be unfair
spies8dane (2:58:23 PM): or maybe the thing can't be used on another spy, and only citizens
spies8lilith (2:58:28 PM): Anything that doesn't make them immune to a vote, lol
spies8dane (2:58:38 PM): but the only way spies can be hurt is by being voted
spies8dane (2:58:54 PM): so a power role for them would be to protect themselves
spies8dane (2:59:15 PM): hell, citizens already have a way to prevent the doctor and the captain burg from ever being imprisoned
spies8dane (2:59:18 PM): thats hardly fair to the spies
spies8lilith (2:59:51 PM): But it could be anything, like a cop that finds town power roles, or something the blocks other roles, or maybe an extra vote here or there or coming up innocent to a cop
spies8dane (3:00:07 PM): but the role was already claimed
spies8lilith (3:00:09 PM): we can prevent the dr. from being imprisoned?
spies8dane (3:00:10 PM): it helps the spies
spies8dane (3:00:23 PM): yeah, if captain burg gets saved, then captain burg can save the doctor
spies8lilith (3:00:36 PM): what is Captain Burg? lol
spies8dane (3:00:40 PM): -_-
spies8dane (3:00:46 PM): you've got some reading to do my dear
spies8dane (3:00:58 PM): go read up on Allan's power role
spies8lilith (3:01:02 PM): I'm a replacement, the expecation to read everything is unreasonable.
spies8lilith (3:02:18 PM): ?
spies8dane (3:02:38 PM): thats why i'm saying you need to read up on the important things like role claims
spies8dane (3:02:41 PM): go look at Allan's
spies8lilith (3:02:48 PM): I don't know where it is :-P.
spies8dane (3:03:16 PM): you can't expect everyone to fill you in on everything, you gotta be reading through the burg and trying to catch up
spies8dane (3:03:22 PM): at least skimming
spies8lilith (3:03:53 PM): I am atleast skimming. Telling me to "go look something up" seems a little insensative. Not assisting me seems lazy on your part when I've only asked one question to you about the past.
spies8dane (3:04:13 PM): that is certainly not the only thing
spies8dane (3:04:23 PM): since I just went in depth on CLAUDES role claim
spies8dane (3:04:47 PM): and it's not lazyness on my part
spies8lilith (3:04:59 PM): So you expect me to go look up everything everyone talks about? That's a bit counterproductive when the quicker way would be to explain it.
spies8dane (3:05:30 PM): no, but if you were skimming through things, you might pick up on something major like a role claim
spies8lilith (3:06:17 PM): I haven't been able to skim through everything. There is so much stuff. Plus, with trying to get to know just the people that are relevant to me at the moment, analyzing the other team seems kind of pointless at this moment to me when I have a bunch of others things to catch up on.
spies8dane (3:06:48 PM): allan was on the republicans
spies8dane (3:07:05 PM): so its in the forum for the republicans, aka our team
spies8lilith (3:07:26 PM): Yes, but stuff about him isn't relevant to me because even if I did gather suspscions I couldn't do anything about it at this moment.
spies8dane (3:07:27 PM): and it was a pretty major event
spies8dane (3:07:37 PM): since a lot of people only changed to savannah after he claimed
spies8dane (3:07:43 PM): end of episode 2
spies8dane (3:07:59 PM): but you need to know what already happened, at least the major events
spies8lilith (3:08:02 PM): No one has told me that part, lol.
spies8dane (3:08:43 PM): anyway
spies8lilith (3:08:49 PM): I don't think I need to know the major events, at this moment in time I am more focused on talking to people one-on-one and seeing how they react and talk so I can get a good judgment on them. Actions can only tell you so much, but it's more meaningful to know their motives.
spies8dane (3:08:51 PM): captain burg can use the actions used on him
spies8lilith (3:09:01 PM): O
spies8lilith (3:09:02 PM): That
spies8lilith (3:09:09 PM): I remember now.
spies8lilith (3:09:17 PM): Someone has a role that can use roles used on them.
spies8dane (3:09:26 PM): Actions can only tell you so much, but it's more meaningful to know their motives.
spies8dane (3:09:31 PM): definitely REALLY DISAGREE
spies8dane (3:09:42 PM): people can LIE about their motivations
spies8dane (3:09:47 PM): but their actions are EVIDENCE
spies8lilith (3:09:59 PM): Yes, but a liar can't fake the same sincerety a real person has about their motives.
spies8dane (3:10:01 PM): yes
spies8dane (3:10:02 PM): they
spies8dane (3:10:03 PM): can
spies8dane (3:10:12 PM): its an online chat
spies8lilith (3:10:12 PM): I want people to lie to me, that way I have the ability to read them for their lies.
spies8dane (3:10:16 PM): people can lie easily
spies8dane (3:10:19 PM): and sound convincing
spies8lilith (3:10:19 PM): Talking to people is the only way I'm going to figure things out.
spies8dane (3:10:25 PM): no, you need to read
spies8dane (3:10:27 PM): and analyze
spies8lilith (3:10:31 PM): I don't agree that they can be convincing if people know what to look for.
spies8lilith (3:11:01 PM): Like I've said, mafia can't fake the sincerety that town has in their suspecions and motives.
spies8dane (3:11:05 PM): yes they can
spies8dane (3:11:10 PM): its called lieing
spies8dane (3:11:12 PM): lying
spies8dane (3:11:13 PM): and bussing
spies8dane (3:11:18 PM): they do it
spies8dane (3:11:19 PM): all
spies8dane (3:11:21 PM): the fucking
spies8dane (3:11:22 PM): time
spies8lilith (3:11:25 PM): How can they fake the sincerety in it?
spies8dane (3:11:31 PM): because you can't hear their voice
spies8lilith (3:11:42 PM): You don't need to, you can see how they explain things.
spies8dane (3:11:45 PM): -_-
spies8dane (3:11:49 PM): you are being absurd
spies8lilith (3:11:55 PM): No I am not.
spies8dane (3:12:08 PM): there is no such thing as an online lie detector
spies8lilith (3:12:27 PM): There is such a thing as how someone explains things though.
spies8dane (3:12:38 PM): which changes based on a persons PERSONALITY
spies8lilith (3:12:38 PM): Mafia are going to explain things differently than a townsperson would.
spies8dane (3:12:41 PM): no
spies8dane (3:12:43 PM): they aren't
spies8lilith (3:12:45 PM): Yes.
spies8dane (3:12:47 PM): they want to blend in
spies8dane (3:12:55 PM): they'll explain the exact same way as a citizen
spies8dane (3:13:07 PM): and some citizens explain things different from other citizens
spies8lilith (3:13:12 PM): In the back of the mafia's mind, they know who the other mafia are. They can't fake the sincerety that other town people have in scumhunting and what not.
spies8dane (3:13:23 PM): YES
spies8dane (3:13:25 PM): THEY CAN
spies8dane (3:13:37 PM): I can't even talk to you
spies8lilith (3:13:44 PM): You can't fake sincerety. I think you are not understanding that concept.
spies8dane (3:13:45 PM): "can't fake the sincerity?"
spies8dane (3:13:50 PM): that is absurd
spies8lilith (3:13:54 PM): You can fake acting, yes, but you can't fake the sincerity that people have.
spies8dane (3:13:57 PM): absofuckinglutely absurd
spies8lilith (3:14:12 PM): It is not. Some people scumhunt with logic, I prefer to look at people's behavior.
spies8dane (3:14:21 PM): no you aren't
spies8dane (3:14:28 PM): you are looking at people's personalities
spies8dane (3:14:31 PM): not their behavior
spies8lilith (3:14:34 PM): It isn't their personalities.
spies8dane (3:14:35 PM): behavior depends on ACTIONS
spies8dane (3:14:45 PM): as in a behavior is made up of a persons ACTIONS
spies8lilith (3:14:47 PM): Explaining something in certain way IS an action.
spies8dane (3:15:12 PM): the act of an explanation is the action
spies8dane (3:15:17 PM): the WAY the explain is personality
spies8dane (3:15:30 PM): which is different from person to person
spies8dane (3:15:33 PM): NOT from citizen to spy
spies8dane (3:16:16 PM): I can't deal with you
spies8dane (3:16:17 PM): ttyl
spies8lilith (3:16:25 PM): Wait just a second.
spies8dane (3:16:29 PM): .
spies8lilith (3:17:00 PM): Right now, you are disagreeing with me about my playstyle. That is an action based on your PERSONALITY. I agree with that. How you disagree with me may depend on your alignment, although since this disagreement has nothing to do with your alignment or the game itself, moreso how we play the game, it doesn't tell me anything about your motives.
spies8lilith (3:17:54 PM): Although you are disagreeing with me and it is frustrating, it doesn't tell me anything about your alignment in this game and I would prefer we just ignore it, because I do have questions for you that I would like answered.
spies8dane (3:18:33 PM): thats fine, as long as they are not questions who's answers could easily be found by skimming the republican burg
spies8lilith (3:18:49 PM): It is questions about your actions, so no, it can't be found on the forum.
spies8lilith (3:18:59 PM): Reading through things two things sparked different ideas for me.
spies8lilith (3:19:45 PM): First, you made a comment about Alexei's case depending on Zed's. Which in my mind made me think perhaps you could be Alexei's partner and Zed not being mafia, and you were planting a seed that Zed be lynched first, come up innocent, and then erase a case on Alexei.
spies8dane (3:20:38 PM): I said that early on in episode 1, before Alexei started attacking both me and Zed
spies8lilith (3:21:02 PM): Why are you stating when you said it?
spies8dane (3:21:12 PM): and I wasn't apart of the zed or the alexei wagons originally
spies8dane (3:21:34 PM): because that was said early on, it wasn't actually a reasoning in my vote
spies8lilith (3:21:53 PM): My comment has nothing to do with what wagon you were on or who you voted though.
spies8dane (3:22:14 PM): what are you asking about then
spies8lilith (3:22:17 PM): Your statement, sounded to me, like a mafia statement trying to plant a seed that Zed should be voted off first in order to make Alexei's case valid.
spies8dane (3:22:57 PM): i said alexei was connected to zed. how does that say anything about which should be voted, if either was a spy, or anything else?
spies8dane (3:23:02 PM): I just said they were connected
spies8lilith (3:23:10 PM): You said Alexei's case depends on Zed.
spies8dane (3:23:22 PM): yeah, at that time, alexei threw in with zed
spies8dane (3:23:36 PM): and part of the case on alexei was how he reacted to zed's stuff
spies8dane (3:23:38 PM): aka
spies8dane (3:23:42 PM): they were connected
spies8lilith (3:23:43 PM): Aka, that suggests, what Zed's alignment is determines if there is a case on Alexei. Meaning that you would rather Zed go first and then determine if Alexei is a spy from there.
spies8dane (3:23:47 PM): and the case on alexei at that time
spies8dane (3:24:01 PM): again, you are jumping on a ship made of water: it isn't there
spies8dane (3:24:08 PM): I was never advocating a lynch of zed
spies8dane (3:24:23 PM): I wasn't advocating a lynch of alexei until near the end
spies8dane (3:24:35 PM): I did not contribute to the zedekiah case
spies8lilith (3:25:06 PM): I am not talking about who you advocated a lynch on. I'm talking about what, looks to me, a seed that you were trying to plant in people's minds. If nobody agreed then you would let it go, but it looks like an attempt to throw the case off of Alexei and onto Zed.
spies8dane (3:25:59 PM): you are really lost. I VOTED ALEXEI.
spies8lilith (3:26:08 PM): I am not talking about who you voted for.
spies8dane (3:26:12 PM): yes you are
spies8lilith (3:26:21 PM): I am not... --_--
spies8dane (3:26:21 PM): "but it looks like an attempt to throw the case off of alexei"
spies8lilith (3:26:27 PM): Exactly.
spies8dane (3:26:28 PM): why would I do that
spies8dane (3:26:31 PM): AND VOTE THE FUCKER
spies8lilith (3:26:31 PM): I am talking about your actions
spies8lilith (3:26:35 PM): Not who you voted for.
spies8dane (3:26:47 PM): me voting is the action
spies8lilith (3:26:58 PM): That is not the action I am questioning you about though.
spies8dane (3:27:05 PM): an offhand comment saying two people were connected on the second or third day of the game is NOT an action
spies8lilith (3:27:15 PM): I don't care about who you voted for, I am asking about a comment you made that would indirectly throw the weight from Alexei to Zed.
spies8dane (3:27:22 PM): you NEED to care about who voted for who
spies8lilith (3:27:31 PM): That is not what I am looking for right now.
spies8dane (3:27:53 PM): and no my comment, being from someone uninvolved with either case, did not indirectly throw ANY weight around
spies8lilith (3:28:20 PM): You NEED to stop telling me what to do. I know what to look at and what to look for. Just because it is not convient to you does not make it wrong. People do things their own ways, I think it is very rude and immature for you to not respect that and treat people like they are wrong because of how they address the game.
spies8dane (3:28:36 PM): you do not know what to look at, since you are looking for "fake sincerity".
spies8lilith (3:28:52 PM): Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for me.
spies8lilith (3:28:57 PM): People look at things different ways.
spies8dane (3:28:58 PM): you are not a lie detector
spies8lilith (3:29:01 PM): People don't all play the game the same way.
spies8dane (3:29:07 PM): and believing you are means you tunnel
spies8dane (3:29:12 PM): meaning you hurt the citizens
spies8lilith (3:29:31 PM): You keep making assumptions and are not opening your minds to how other people play the game.
spies8lilith (3:29:43 PM): I am not sure where you get this assumption that I tunnel from.
spies8dane (3:29:51 PM): YOU ARE BASING YOUR SUSPICIONS OFF YOUR OPINION OF WHETHER PEOPLE ARE SINCERE INSTEAD OF OFF EVIDENCE
spies8lilith (3:30:23 PM): Evidence can be twisted and turned in any way. If a citizen makes a mistake, a mafia can jump on it, use logic, and turn people agains't that person.
spies8dane (3:30:26 PM): saying someone seemed insincere cannot be proven true or false or bussing or anything until alignment shows
spies8dane (3:30:34 PM): evidence is provable
spies8dane (3:30:46 PM): evidence is a lot harder to twist
spies8dane (3:30:51 PM): than someone's sincerity
spies8dane (3:30:55 PM): and I'm done discussing this
spies8lilith (3:30:56 PM): Provable sounds to me like you are basing people's gameplay on if they can convince other people who mafia is.
spies8dane (3:31:00 PM): no
spies8dane (3:31:14 PM): I'm saying if someone votes right when a counterwagon starts
spies8dane (3:31:16 PM): that fact
spies8dane (3:31:17 PM): right there
spies8dane (3:31:21 PM): is a piece of evidence
spies8dane (3:31:23 PM): irrefutable
spies8lilith (3:31:29 PM): Yes, but it can be twisted into anything.
spies8dane (3:31:32 PM): their MOTIVATION in doing so can be twisted
spies8dane (3:31:35 PM): not the fact itself
spies8dane (3:32:00 PM): this is wasting my time, because you don't listen and just assume you are correct
spies8dane (3:32:02 PM): bye
spies8lilith (3:32:03 PM): The motivation from them, is that person's reason. I feel like their reasoning can help me identify them as being honest or a liar.
spies8lilith (3:32:10 PM): I never said I was correct.
Thursday, July 01, 2010
spies8lilith (3:32:15 PM): You are the one telling me I am wrong.
spies8lilith (3:32:18 PM): I did not say you were wrong.