(3:47:59 AM) spies8owen: Hey Claude.
(3:48:05 AM) spies8claude: Ah.
(3:48:08 AM) spies8claude: Hello Owen.
(3:48:13 AM) spies8owen: How goes it?
(3:48:18 AM) spies8claude: Alright.
(3:48:21 AM) spies8claude: Yourself?
(3:48:49 AM) spies8owen: I'm beat. Tired as hell despite sleeping most of the day.
(3:48:58 AM) spies8claude: Maybe you overslept :-P
(3:49:05 AM) spies8owen: Nah, I'm sickly.
(3:49:19 AM) spies8claude: Ah okay.
(3:50:00 AM) spies8owen: Trying not to stress too much, since out of character, I'm diabetic. Sickness already fucks with that, so yeah.
(3:50:06 AM) spies8claude: Man.
(3:50:10 AM) spies8owen: If you could not mention the diabetes part to others, that would be swell.
(3:50:15 AM) spies8claude: I've heard that makes like really difficult.
(3:50:17 AM) spies8claude: Yeah of course.
(3:50:18 AM) spies8owen: It would be a giveaway to others. I'm pretty sure you haven't played.
(3:50:45 AM) spies8claude: zomg I'm going to go look up past people w/ diabetes and report you
(3:50:46 AM) spies8claude: ...
(3:50:49 AM) spies8claude: alright not really
(3:51:04 AM) spies8owen: Yeah, it blows. The reason I haven't been going in the bigger chats the past 2 nights is mostly due to that. Not that I'm a huge presence in them ever.
(3:51:05 AM) spies8claude: I wouldn't even make an 'accusation' against someone I thought was a Spy, heh.
(3:51:16 AM) spies8owen: Accusations are weak.
(3:51:22 AM) spies8claude: I concur.
(3:51:30 AM) spies8claude: they're just tacky on a non-game level.
(3:51:56 AM) spies8owen: Maybe if it was getting close to a lylo and people were being stupid and blowing the game, but even then, I'd feel ridiculous.
(3:52:44 AM) spies8claude: same.
(3:53:19 AM) spies8owen: How are you feeling about the Chance shit now?
(3:53:24 AM) spies8claude: shrug
(3:53:26 AM) spies8claude: It is what it is.
(3:53:34 AM) spies8owen: I wanted to give you a pep talk about it last night, but didn't seem like you'd want to hear it.
(3:53:59 AM) spies8owen: I've had to hold a lot of crap in throughout the game. It's been really stressful and not fun whatsoever.
(3:54:08 AM) spies8owen: Cory doc, then that.
(3:54:12 AM) spies8owen: And dictator.
(3:54:22 AM) spies8claude: At least now I know why you just couldn't be bothered listening to my case on Chance.
(3:54:30 AM) spies8owen: Yeah, there's tons I can't even argue about it.
(3:54:33 AM) spies8owen: The case is good, man.
(3:54:41 AM) spies8claude: Had I know this all some time before Imprisonment, I wouldn't have used my ability on you.
(3:54:45 AM) spies8claude: Just for the record, heh.
(3:55:05 AM) spies8owen: I'd imagine so.
(3:55:20 AM) spies8owen: It was making Cory and I look terrible for defending him without solid reasons.
(3:55:41 AM) spies8claude: Now Gertrude is like 'but we need you to keep up your 'suspicions' of him and keep voting him, for his ability'
(3:55:44 AM) spies8claude: so stupid
(3:56:13 AM) spies8owen: Ehh. I think the reason you should keep being suspicious of him is so we can pick up on the wagoners.
(3:56:15 AM) spies8claude: So glad I won back my vote just to not ever get to accomplish anything w/ it, yay.
(3:56:31 AM) spies8claude: the only person wagoning him that I'm really suspicious of is Awohali.
(3:56:33 AM) spies8owen: Like Awo.
(3:56:34 AM) spies8owen: Yes.
(3:56:38 AM) spies8claude: chuckle
(3:56:49 AM) spies8owen: I have no evidence on him
(3:56:50 AM) spies8owen: Just gut.
(3:57:08 AM) spies8claude: Evidence doesn't seem to be extremely relevant this game :-)
(3:57:17 AM) spies8owen: Hahahaha.
(3:57:25 AM) spies8owen: Damn devil.
(3:57:37 AM) spies8claude: The whole role just infuriates me.
(3:57:49 AM) spies8claude: "You're town. Now please act like scum for the whole game. kkthxbye"
(3:58:04 AM) spies8owen: Sadly, there's been worse.
(3:58:25 AM) spies8owen: Dick Tracy was basically a "to activate this role, make a fake claim up"
(3:58:29 AM) spies8owen: AKA get yourself lynched
(3:58:38 AM) spies8claude: So terrible.
(3:58:45 AM) spies8claude: I honestly would just play as Vanilla.
(3:58:52 AM) spies8owen: I like being 'nilla.
(3:59:25 AM) spies8claude: Chance's role would have been perfect for me, though.
(3:59:37 AM) spies8claude: My play is aggressive enough that some sucker scum always tries to have a go at me.
(4:00:05 AM) spies8owen: Is that why you were so sold on Chance?
(4:00:08 AM) spies8owen: Among other things, of course.
(4:00:14 AM) spies8claude: What do you mean?
(4:00:24 AM) spies8owen: Usually a sucker scum going at you.
(4:00:28 AM) spies8owen: Because of how aggressive you are.
(4:00:28 AM) spies8claude: Oh.
(4:00:30 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(4:00:44 AM) spies8claude: I started to doubt it.
(4:00:47 AM) spies8claude: And then Isaac flipped scum.
(4:00:56 AM) spies8claude: And he could been riding chance's coattails against me constantly.
(4:01:06 AM) spies8claude: Then Magalie flipped Spy, and I questioned my judgment some.
(4:01:14 AM) spies8claude: And then I saw the conversation she had with Stephanie.
(4:01:23 AM) spies8owen: Isaac and Magalie definitely have tried to look connected to Chance, which is something to keep in mind when looking at their other connections.
(4:01:30 AM) spies8claude: And I was never changing my mind from that point.
(4:01:40 AM) spies8claude: Barring this apparent miracle, of course.
(4:02:16 AM) spies8claude: But honestly, if the game ends and it turns out that Chance is actually not a Citizen, and Sam just duped Gertrude, I won't be surprised. I've given up actually trying to get him lynched, but I definitely won't be surprised.
(4:02:17 AM) spies8owen: I'm 99.9% sure that it's legitimate.
(4:02:23 AM) spies8claude: Yeah me too.
(4:02:29 AM) spies8claude: I'm completely sold on Gert at least.
(4:02:38 AM) spies8claude: And I suppose that's good enough.
(4:02:48 AM) spies8owen: Same. Chance does some ridiculous things.
(4:02:59 AM) spies8owen: Makes me went to yell at him as I'm defending him to people.
(4:03:17 AM) spies8claude: heh
(4:03:50 AM) spies8owen: He was pretty selfish about claiming to you, as well.
(4:04:03 AM) spies8claude: I guess that's not terribly surprising.
(4:04:11 AM) spies8claude: I don't know how I'd feel about it if the situation was reversed.
(4:04:13 AM) spies8owen: Yeah, but he's only thinking about himself.
(4:04:17 AM) spies8claude: yeah.
(4:04:20 AM) spies8claude: That's true enough.
(4:05:02 AM) spies8claude: All of this would have been drastically easier if you guys had told me this afte Magalie's lynch.
(4:05:10 AM) spies8owen: Much.
(4:05:16 AM) spies8claude: Me being wrong about her would have been the perfect cover for me to back off of Chance.
(4:05:17 AM) spies8owen: I wanted to expand, Cory wanted to expand.
(4:05:21 AM) spies8owen: Chance, not so much.
(4:06:06 AM) spies8owen: I think the longer you go after Chance, the longer you'd avoid imp.
(4:06:19 AM) spies8claude: That's a good point.
(4:06:41 AM) spies8claude: Though as it gets late into the game, the Spies will likely Imp. me to try and galvanize a lynch against chance.
(4:07:02 AM) spies8owen: I'd like for you to stick around. The stuff you had on Chance was legitimate, so you're definitely on point with your suspicions.
(4:07:12 AM) spies8owen: I wasn't putting on the other day, I really think I'm a goner.
(4:07:18 AM) spies8claude: wrong for the right reasons, heh.
(4:07:27 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(4:07:38 AM) spies8claude: I suspect you or Cory is going to get Imprisoned soon.
(4:07:52 AM) spies8claude: I think that Gert needs to be a little more cagey about using her ability.
(4:07:59 AM) spies8owen: Depending on who Gert protects, I'd imagine the other will go.
(4:08:04 AM) spies8owen: Just like me/Tina.
(4:08:04 AM) spies8claude: Creating an obvious pattern is just bad news.
(4:08:07 AM) spies8claude: yeah
(4:08:24 AM) spies8claude: It's pretty weak that Cory became vanilla after one successful doc protect.
(4:08:43 AM) spies8owen: I hate that, too.
(4:08:51 AM) spies8claude: + really random that the Spies tried to kill Gabe first.
(4:08:55 AM) spies8claude: There has to be some information in that.
(4:08:58 AM) spies8owen: I understand a limit... but 1?
(4:09:32 AM) spies8owen: Gabe's main suspicion going out was unfortunately useless. :/
(4:09:42 AM) spies8claude: Darn.
(4:09:44 AM) spies8owen: He thought Savannah had an alignment coverup.
(4:09:52 AM) spies8owen: That's the last thing we talked about.
(4:09:55 AM) spies8claude: So his main suspicion was useless
(4:09:59 AM) spies8claude: And the Spies still killed him.
(4:10:01 AM) spies8owen: People he was close to = Steph, myself, Tina.
(4:10:14 AM) spies8owen: I don't think Steph had any reason to want him dead.
(4:10:20 AM) spies8owen: He was defending her.
(4:10:23 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(4:11:41 AM) spies8owen: I thought Gabe died because he was someone that probably wouldn't be protected.
(4:11:51 AM) spies8owen: And after they got showed up by the doc the first time, they went for a solid hit.
(4:11:59 AM) spies8claude: Yeah
(4:12:05 AM) spies8owen: I was under the impression Nita was saved until Cory came to me.
(4:12:12 AM) spies8owen: Which is how he cleared me, heh.
(4:12:18 AM) spies8claude: heh
(4:12:19 AM) spies8claude: me too
(4:12:39 AM) spies8owen: I trust Cory a lot.
(4:12:46 AM) spies8claude: Same.
(4:12:56 AM) spies8claude: I've trusted him since late day 1.
(4:13:02 AM) spies8claude: And never really wavered on it.
(4:13:37 AM) spies8owen: I was skeptical of the doctor thing at first, but everything made a lot of sense. Been working with him ever since then.
(4:13:45 AM) spies8owen: Which means that he'll die soon if I don't.
(4:13:50 AM) spies8claude: yeah.
(4:13:55 AM) spies8owen: Everyone I work with does.
(4:13:58 AM) spies8claude: lol
(4:14:01 AM) spies8owen: Gabe, Nita, Tina.
(4:14:05 AM) spies8owen: Lilith, even.
(4:14:13 AM) spies8claude: I'll tried not to read too deeply into that.
(4:14:15 AM) spies8owen: She came up with the fake doctor plan.
(4:14:22 AM) spies8owen: She wanted to die for a good cause.
(4:14:25 AM) spies8owen: But she overplayed it so much.
(4:14:28 AM) spies8owen: SO MUCH.
(4:14:32 AM) spies8owen: That we couldn't get anything out of it.
(4:14:32 AM) spies8claude: It fascinates me that the Spies could ever think, for even a minute, that she was the Doc.
(4:14:36 AM) spies8owen: I know.
(4:14:39 AM) spies8owen: It was so over the top.
(4:14:55 AM) spies8owen: I was surprised they actually killed her.
(4:15:03 AM) spies8claude: The original Lilith was on for literally 5 minutes during Episode 1.
(4:15:04 AM) spies8owen: I was happy she took the bullet though over Tina.
(4:15:22 AM) spies8claude: For her to have gotten a protection off successfully would have involved pictures and a dart.
(4:15:45 AM) spies8owen: lmao
(4:16:02 AM) spies8owen: So true, especially on Gabe. Very random.
(4:16:06 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(4:16:29 AM) spies8owen: Moving on to the current vote.
(4:16:32 AM) spies8owen: I think I'll be voting Kiara.
(4:16:38 AM) spies8owen: I think she's our best shot.
(4:16:44 AM) spies8claude: Gertrude seems really opposed to Kiara getting voted.
(4:16:49 AM) spies8claude: But I'm happy with it.
(4:17:17 AM) spies8owen: After I was given the power:
(12:03:33 AM) spies8kiara: i just want it on record that if you end up being a spy i will hate you when this is all over lol!
(4:17:20 AM) spies8owen: Gives me enough hope.
(4:17:29 AM) spies8owen: That comment still bothers me a lot.
(4:17:46 AM) spies8claude: Same
(4:17:49 AM) spies8claude: It's just so phony
(4:17:52 AM) spies8owen: lol!!!
(4:17:54 AM) spies8owen: !!!!
(4:17:55 AM) spies8claude: Just like her reaction to Isaac's lynch.
(4:18:06 AM) spies8owen: And Cory brought up today.
(4:18:13 AM) spies8owen: That she couldn't get logs between her and Isaac.
(4:18:17 AM) spies8claude: Yeah
(4:18:19 AM) spies8owen: Despite saying she talked to him "3 times tops"
(4:18:23 AM) spies8owen: Very sketchy
(4:18:29 AM) spies8claude: then just 'couldn't find them'
(4:18:32 AM) spies8owen: Zed's conversation with Isaac seems legit.
(4:18:39 AM) spies8claude: Hopefully we're not just lynching her for being vapid, heh.
(4:18:42 AM) spies8claude: Yeah agreed.
(4:18:43 AM) spies8owen: I don't think either of them were smart enough to have fake cit conversations just incase.
(4:20:06 AM) spies8owen: Also, did Kiara ever give reasons for voting you other than thinking your role was scummy?
(4:20:10 AM) spies8owen: I believe the other day she said she had
(4:20:14 AM) spies8claude: She says she put them somewhere.
(4:20:24 AM) spies8claude: but I've never seen them.
(4:20:25 AM) spies8owen: Did they disappear like the Isaac convos? >_>
(4:20:50 AM) spies8owen: Probably in Spy HQ.
(4:21:01 AM) spies8claude: lol
(4:21:27 AM) spies8owen: Nah, I'm not that sure about her. But I feel like she has the best chance of flipping scum from this group.
(4:21:43 AM) spies8owen: Law looks really solid after Magalie's flip.
(4:21:51 AM) spies8owen: And well, he's going to be replaced or removed.
(4:22:25 AM) spies8owen: And Chance... well, yeah.
(4:22:39 AM) spies8claude: heh
(4:22:43 AM) spies8owen: Before the claim was made to you, I tried to outline your case on Chance and defend him.
(4:22:44 AM) spies8owen: It was so bad.
(4:22:51 AM) spies8owen: I ended up agreeing with more than half of your points.
(4:22:52 AM) spies8claude: lol
(4:23:08 AM) spies8claude: Some of them I overemphasized, but only because I felt like people just weren't listening.
(4:23:16 AM) spies8claude: And they weren't. They just had good reasons not to.
(4:23:26 AM) spies8owen: Well, some of them still aren't.
(4:23:32 AM) spies8owen: Cinnamyn, for one.
(4:23:37 AM) spies8owen: I don't know why she's ignoring it.
(4:23:58 AM) spies8claude: I don't either, but I thought her behavior toward Magalie was solid.
(4:24:07 AM) spies8owen: Yeah, it was.
(4:24:28 AM) spies8owen: I think I'm one of the only people suspicious of Broderick.
(4:24:41 AM) spies8owen: The way he corners people is a mislynching tool.
(4:25:13 AM) spies8owen: If he's scum, he's playing the non-bus game.
(4:25:22 AM) spies8owen: Which would make sense with this stuff
(4:25:22 AM) spies8claude: I honestly don't think he's scum.
(4:25:23 AM) spies8owen: (1:30:28 AM) spies8broderick: Spies will bus each other. A lot more common than people seem to think.
(1:59:38 AM) spies8broderick: I disagree. Bussing is not rare, and it happens more often than people think it does.
(4:25:29 AM) spies8claude: His arguments are all so much nonsense.
(4:25:35 AM) spies8owen: More suspicion shifting after Magalie goes, trying to make it seem like she was bussed:
[23:01] spies8broderick: She probably messed up, then didn't know how to get herself out of it. So her spypals most likely turned on her as a sacrifice
(4:25:45 AM) spies8owen: He points towards bussing a lot when he's doing none of it.
(4:25:53 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(4:25:55 AM) spies8claude: That's a good point.
(4:26:18 AM) spies8owen: Just think people should keep an eye on him.
(4:26:23 AM) spies8claude: For sure.
(4:26:25 AM) spies8owen: I get a lot of "Brod, nah"
(4:26:41 AM) spies8owen: Dane, as well.
(4:26:50 AM) spies8claude: He's up there on my list, w/o a doubt
(4:26:54 AM) spies8owen: OTT asshole does not = town.
(4:28:33 AM) spies8claude: I'm mostly suspicious of him because he doesn't seem to actually be participating.
(4:28:39 AM) spies8owen: At all.
(4:28:52 AM) spies8claude: Just 'yell at a few people so everyone will be relieved when I leave chat'
(4:29:01 AM) spies8owen: Or avoid AIM all together.
(4:29:03 AM) spies8claude: and won't think about the fact that I'm not actually doing anything'
(4:29:08 AM) spies8owen: He came on invisible yesterday to get his two conversations
(4:29:13 AM) spies8claude: lol
(4:29:19 AM) spies8owen: With Steph and Cory.
(4:30:10 AM) spies8owen: Steph is the person on the Chance wagon (besides you, but you're not exactly on it, you created it) I feel best about.
(4:30:18 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(4:30:19 AM) spies8owen: She seems legitimately suspicious.
(4:30:25 AM) spies8claude: I'm sold on her being town.
(4:30:32 AM) spies8owen: Or an award winning actress.
(4:30:38 AM) spies8claude: Some of her ideas are silly, but you get the impression that she really believes them.
(4:30:48 AM) spies8owen: Mmhmm, that's how I've felt for a while.
(4:30:55 AM) spies8owen: Got yelled at for saying that by Broderick once.
(4:31:00 AM) spies8claude: I was pretty suspicious of her before the merge
(4:31:02 AM) spies8owen: Good times.
(4:31:03 AM) spies8claude: But when you talk to her..shrug
(4:31:09 AM) spies8claude: She just seems completely innocent.
(4:31:15 AM) spies8owen: Very.
(4:31:27 AM) spies8owen: She's still coming up with theories for the immunity roles.
(4:31:30 AM) spies8claude: At the same time, it's really hard to believe that everyone in the senta is a citizen.
(4:31:34 AM) spies8claude: senate.
(4:31:44 AM) spies8claude: Just seems awfully lucky.
(4:31:48 AM) spies8owen: On senate, I'm most unsure of Mary and Cin.
(4:32:03 AM) spies8owen: I trusted Mary a lot more before the last exile.
(4:32:21 AM) spies8claude: I don't think she would have laid into you guys so much as a Spyl
(4:32:32 AM) spies8claude: Since it makes her look really bad when Chance flips Citizen.
(4:32:44 AM) spies8owen: That's a good point.
(4:32:59 AM) spies8owen: Has she since backed off of Chance? I haven't gotten to talk to her.
(4:33:04 AM) spies8claude: Yeah, she has.
(4:33:16 AM) spies8claude: I mean..how can she not though.
(4:33:22 AM) spies8owen: Yeah, either way, she'd have to.
(4:33:35 AM) spies8claude: If there was any way for chance to be a Spy, I'd find it heh.
(4:34:03 AM) spies8owen: Unless Sam is lying to Gertrude, almost impossible.
(4:34:08 AM) spies8claude: Yeah
(4:34:15 AM) spies8claude: That's the only real possibility that I can see.
(4:34:17 AM) spies8claude: And it's really not one.
(4:34:24 AM) spies8claude: Or not one you can ever do anything about.
(4:34:34 AM) spies8owen: Yeah, he wouldn't do that. And if he does, that's a game breaker.
(4:34:38 AM) spies8owen: Completeee bullshit.
(4:34:42 AM) spies8claude: Agreed.
(4:34:44 AM) spies8owen: Gotta give it the benefit of the doubt.
(4:34:57 AM) spies8claude: I'm not entirely convinced that he wouldn't do it, but it's not an argument I'd be comfortable running.
(4:35:17 AM) spies8claude: I've started to come to the idea that Sam is just running this to amuse himself.
(4:35:26 AM) spies8claude: Which makes alot of bastard modding possible.
(4:35:37 AM) spies8claude: I just have to hope that it doesn't go to the level of 'directly lying to people'
(4:35:42 AM) spies8owen: lmao, I don't think he'd go that far. I really really hope not.
(4:35:47 AM) spies8claude: Yeah same.
(4:35:57 AM) spies8claude: I've come to terms with all of it.
(4:36:06 AM) spies8claude: Even though Chance is being a whiny bitch about it.
(4:36:21 AM) spies8owen: Your initial reaction was expected.
(4:36:39 AM) spies8claude: I just don't see how you guys don't tell me once I earn my vote back. It's too hard to just ignore another senate person.
(4:36:42 AM) spies8owen: Everything you've put together in the game squashed by a role that kinda forces someone to look scummy.
(4:36:47 AM) spies8claude: He should logically realize this.
(4:37:13 AM) spies8owen: Yep.
(4:37:16 AM) spies8owen: He should.
(4:37:36 AM) spies8owen: And he should take into consideration how badly it was making me look. I think I'm someone the town should have some faith in at this point.
(4:37:43 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(4:38:05 AM) spies8owen: I do worry about the people that still are calling me "leader" though.
(4:38:13 AM) spies8owen: Seems like asskissing.
(4:38:22 AM) spies8claude: Oh, you mean like everyone catering their votes to 'give you more choices'
(4:38:28 AM) spies8claude: As opposed to just nominating people that are scumm
(4:38:38 AM) spies8claude: Since, you know, there are 6 other senators
(4:38:40 AM) spies8owen: I wasn't surprised that Allan did it.
(4:38:47 AM) spies8owen: He trusts me.
(4:38:55 AM) spies8claude: Yeah, Allan is w/e
(4:39:08 AM) spies8claude: He's just a follower in general.
(4:39:12 AM) spies8owen: Noob town, imo
(4:39:18 AM) spies8claude: I agree.
(4:39:23 AM) spies8claude: Though it does bug me that he's still alive.
(4:39:58 AM) spies8owen: Yeah. I've kinda rationalized it's because they're going for the smart people/ones that are on the right track first.
(4:40:09 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(4:40:14 AM) spies8owen: I don't think Allan falls in either of those categories as far as mafia is concerned.
(4:40:19 AM) spies8claude: snicker
(4:40:24 AM) spies8owen: Good guy, not good at mafia.
(4:41:21 AM) spies8owen: Actually, hmm.
(4:41:35 AM) spies8claude: ?
(4:41:37 AM) spies8owen: He was protected the round before, now now this time. That must have been awfully tempting for the spies.
(4:41:42 AM) spies8owen: now not*
(4:41:53 AM) spies8owen: Since he would have known about Gert's role.
(4:42:05 AM) spies8owen: Actually, scratch that.
(4:42:10 AM) spies8owen: They could want him alive to slip the info, perhaps.
(4:42:18 AM) spies8claude: Yeah
(4:42:28 AM) spies8claude: Definitely possible considering how quickly he blabbled his own role to Jenny.
(4:42:51 AM) spies8owen: I'm surprised he apparently did so well hiding the power and how it worked.
(4:42:58 AM) spies8owen: He only told Tina and I to my knowledge.
(4:43:00 AM) spies8claude: What do you mean?
(4:43:10 AM) spies8owen: About the role being used on him.
(4:43:17 AM) spies8owen: And him being able to protect by not getting a vote.
(4:43:18 AM) spies8claude: Which role, Gerts?
(4:43:22 AM) spies8owen: Yep.
(4:43:25 AM) spies8claude: Ah, yeah.
(4:44:01 AM) spies8owen: Tina and I fought each other to not give up immunity. Usually people would fight for it. Aren't we adorable?
(4:44:27 AM) spies8claude: lol
(4:44:29 AM) spies8owen: Felt kinda like Tina should stay over me.
(4:44:37 AM) spies8owen: Girl never took breaks from looking at stuff.
(4:44:40 AM) spies8owen: I can get lazy.
(4:45:06 AM) spies8claude: Oh, that's why Gert is pro-Kiara right now.
(4:45:26 AM) spies8claude: She worked out that the likely reason that Kiara stopped voting Allan is because Tina told Kiara about Allan having that ability.
(4:45:45 AM) spies8owen: Yep, that is why Kiara switched finally.
(4:45:54 AM) spies8claude: I'm not convinced that is a town tell, shrug
(4:45:58 AM) spies8owen: Don't think that's a huge point in her favor.
(4:46:01 AM) spies8owen: At all.
(4:46:01 AM) spies8claude: What is a scujm going to do there, refuse to switch?
(4:46:21 AM) spies8owen: Who did she switch onto anyway? Rondak?
(4:46:26 AM) spies8claude: I think so.
(4:46:41 AM) spies8owen: Hmm. I haven't talked to Brondak much yet.
(4:46:47 AM) spies8claude: I like him so far.
(4:46:56 AM) spies8claude: He said some things today that I don't really see a person saying as a Spy.
(4:47:01 AM) spies8owen: I heard via Jenny that you questioned him about his Chance vote.
(4:47:04 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(4:47:05 AM) spies8owen: Did he answer it well?
(4:47:08 AM) spies8claude: I thought so.
(4:47:22 AM) spies8claude: He said he wasn't sure who to vote, and that chance seemed scummy enough, and would be a good information lynch.
(4:47:32 AM) spies8claude: Chance was thrilled to her that, of course.
(4:47:33 AM) spies8claude: here
(4:47:35 AM) spies8claude: hear..
(4:47:36 AM) spies8claude: :-(
(4:47:55 AM) spies8claude: When I pushed Rondak further about it, he said that if Chance flipped Spy, it would mean that one of myself and Jenny was a Spy also.
(4:47:59 AM) spies8owen: Don't worry, won't tell Gert about your typos.
(4:48:00 AM) spies8claude: And..the same if he flipped Citizen.
(4:48:10 AM) spies8claude: The way he handled it just seemed honest.
(4:48:31 AM) spies8owen: Doesn't seem like a bad response.
(4:48:41 AM) spies8owen: I'd include me in the "if he flipped spy" category.
(4:48:53 AM) spies8claude: In my experience, Spies generally don't use the 'information lynch' as a reason anyway.
(4:49:09 AM) spies8claude: It's generally not looked well upon, and they'll be expected to provide said information if that's what it comes to.
(4:49:17 AM) spies8owen: I've only done it as town.
(4:49:19 AM) spies8owen: Good point.
(4:49:20 AM) spies8claude: Same.
(4:49:40 AM) spies8claude: I can't really understand chance's attitude about it.;
(4:49:49 AM) spies8claude: Considering that he's completely onboard with just lynching lurkers.
(4:50:14 AM) spies8owen: I think Chance should just completely stop talking sometimes.
(4:50:19 AM) spies8claude: lol
(4:50:26 AM) spies8owen: It would help him.
(4:50:56 AM) spies8claude: I thought it was amusing the other day. When he was like 'If I was a Citizen, I would have just voted Camilla out of self-preservation'
(4:51:12 AM) spies8claude: I pointed out that he did not, in fact, vote her, which lead to one obvious conclusion.
(4:51:14 AM) spies8owen: When in reality, it would have made him look horrible day 1
(4:51:15 AM) spies8claude: And he left chat.
(4:51:17 AM) spies8owen: Since he was defending her.
(4:51:19 AM) spies8claude: Yes
(4:51:20 AM) spies8owen: So stupid.
(4:51:20 AM) spies8claude: Thank you.
(4:51:34 AM) spies8claude: I literally spent the better part of an your trying to get that through to him.
(4:51:35 AM) spies8owen: That was the point of your case where I was like "yeah, I can't do this anymore."
(4:52:17 AM) spies8claude: heh
(4:52:23 AM) spies8owen: I think you definitely overestimated him.
(4:52:40 AM) spies8owen: I remember at one point you said you thought he was one of the best players in the game or something along those lines.
(4:53:03 AM) spies8claude: I honestly thought he was just a really good player that was used to getting away with whatever he wanted.
(4:53:41 AM) spies8claude: Apparently..not the case.
(4:54:00 AM) spies8owen: If he was good, my best defense of him wouldn't be "I haven't seen much scummy from him."
(4:54:02 AM) spies8owen: Poor thing.
(4:54:47 AM) spies8owen: At first I actually wasn't TOO suspicious of him, as I didn't want to get into you/Chance at the time.
(4:54:59 AM) spies8claude: I'm still pretty shocked that he just ran out to defend Camilla E1.
(4:55:07 AM) spies8claude: I mean like..what if she flipped Spy.
(4:55:20 AM) spies8owen: I know, reckless.
(4:55:29 AM) spies8claude: That's the thing.
(4:55:34 AM) spies8claude: He didn't do anything really reckless after that.
(4:55:44 AM) spies8claude: So it really just seemed like he was scum trying to get town cred.
(4:55:59 AM) spies8claude: Well, apparently he just baldly lied about making himself immune from exile.
(4:56:12 AM) spies8claude: Which is kind of reckless, but understandable.
(4:56:33 AM) spies8claude: But even then, if he'd just copped to it, it becomes a null tell. A town or scum is going to make the same choice there.
(4:56:58 AM) spies8claude: + He tried to run the 'maybe the Spies are trying to frame me!" bit.
(4:57:12 AM) spies8claude: Which holds up to no scrutiny..scum don't stall mislynches.
(4:58:02 AM) spies8owen: That's a good point about not stalling them.
(4:58:07 AM) spies8owen: Makes me feel better about Cin.
(4:58:13 AM) spies8claude: What do you mean?
(4:58:14 AM) spies8owen: I was thinking she might be keeping Chance around for a later mislynch.
(4:58:18 AM) spies8claude: Ah, yeah.
(4:58:51 AM) spies8claude: I mean, I guess it's possible as the game got late, because I will be fairly vulnerable if Chance ever got lynched somehow.
(4:58:56 AM) spies8claude: But still.
(4:59:27 AM) spies8claude: I feel like there were probably 3 Spies on the initial Democrat side.
(4:59:33 AM) spies8owen: Cin could have had Chance lynched if she wanted to, most likely.
(4:59:36 AM) spies8claude: So hopefully Awohali is it.
(4:59:40 AM) spies8owen: Mag + Mary would have been on it.
(4:59:43 AM) spies8claude: Yeah, she definitely could have.
(5:00:08 AM) spies8owen: My thinking is... where the hell is the SMART SPY?
(5:00:11 AM) spies8owen: There has to be one.
(5:00:12 AM) spies8owen: At least.
(5:00:13 AM) spies8claude: The Spies just giving a Spy a vote is so simultaneously foolish and brilliant.
(5:00:15 AM) spies8claude: I know right.
(5:00:19 AM) spies8owen: The first 3... yikes.
(5:00:28 AM) spies8owen: I think it could be Awo.
(5:00:31 AM) spies8owen: He started off really well.
(5:00:32 AM) spies8claude: Someone came up with the 'magalie sabotage' plan.
(5:01:25 AM) spies8owen: You mean her last ditch effort?
(5:01:28 AM) spies8claude: yeah
(5:01:29 AM) spies8owen: TINA IS THE DOC!
(5:01:36 AM) spies8claude: I'll never buy that she came up with that on her own.
(5:01:40 AM) spies8claude: It's funny, when that happened.
(5:01:41 AM) spies8owen: I think Magalie actually MAY be smart.
(5:01:43 AM) spies8claude: I was talking to Cory.
(5:01:44 AM) spies8owen: Knowing that people buy into WIFOM
(5:01:49 AM) spies8owen: She could have rode it out.
(5:01:52 AM) spies8owen: She would have rode it out.
(5:01:57 AM) spies8claude: And was like 'how can we divert Doc attention off of Tina now'
(5:02:26 AM) spies8owen: Steph has a theory that Tina had a role.
(5:02:28 AM) spies8owen: Bless her heart.
(5:02:34 AM) spies8claude: heh
(5:02:50 AM) spies8owen: I think Magalie was the messenger.
(5:02:55 AM) spies8claude: Probably.
(5:02:58 AM) spies8owen: She has a good amount of posts in her confessional.
(5:03:11 AM) spies8claude: That's what Brod said too
(5:03:19 AM) spies8claude: Are you just looking at her post count or something
(5:03:26 AM) spies8owen: Yep.
(5:03:33 AM) spies8claude: Interesting.
(5:03:40 AM) spies8owen: 98 posts in her confessional.
(5:03:44 AM) spies8claude: Yeah
(5:03:47 AM) spies8claude: = messenger posts.
(5:03:52 AM) spies8claude: Oh 98
(5:03:53 AM) spies8claude: wow
(5:03:57 AM) spies8claude: I have like 10?
(5:03:58 AM) spies8owen: Not that my 450 is a lot.
(5:04:02 AM) spies8claude: lol
(5:04:10 AM) spies8owen: And Broderick says I'm never around.
(5:04:13 AM) spies8owen: Guy is such a douche.
(5:04:14 AM) spies8claude: I use my confessional almost never.
(5:04:23 AM) spies8owen: Mine is filled with mostly convos.
(5:07:52 AM) spies8owen: Another random theory I've had is... WIFOM spies.
(5:07:55 AM) spies8owen: Magalie getting her vote back.
(5:07:59 AM) spies8owen: Not sure I told you this theory.
(5:08:07 AM) spies8claude: Oh, the Spies clearly love WIFOM
(5:08:11 AM) spies8owen: Mmhmm.
(5:08:13 AM) spies8claude: Which makes me wonder about Dane's briber.
(5:08:15 AM) spies8owen: Makes me question Danes bribe.
(5:08:15 AM) spies8owen: Yes.
(5:08:16 AM) spies8claude: bribe.
(5:08:18 AM) spies8claude: lol
(5:08:31 AM) spies8claude: I mean like..no one is giving up their vote for 5 bucks.
(5:08:41 AM) spies8claude: Mise well make another scum look good
(5:08:46 AM) spies8owen: Mmhmm.
(5:08:50 AM) spies8claude: But it's all WIFOM
(5:08:51 AM) spies8claude: shrug
(5:09:10 AM) spies8owen: Compared to what he's doing now, I feel like Dane was doing more earlier.
(5:09:13 AM) spies8owen: At least trying.
(5:09:17 AM) spies8claude: Agreed.
(5:09:27 AM) spies8owen: Ever since being "cleared by Alexei" and bribed.
(5:09:30 AM) spies8owen: He's fallen off.
(5:09:34 AM) spies8claude: He's definetely riding people's initial impression of the first 2 days for him.
(5:10:17 AM) spies8owen: You have no idea how relieved I am that you/I trust each other now.
(5:10:20 AM) spies8claude: I can't decide whether that makes him scum or just lazy, though.
(5:10:23 AM) spies8owen: I felt like I've been dealing with idiots.
(5:10:31 AM) spies8owen: Minus Cory/Gert.
(5:10:35 AM) spies8claude: heh
(5:10:43 AM) spies8owen: I bring these Dane things up to Jenny.
(5:10:49 AM) spies8owen: I get half-assed fence riding responses.
(5:10:58 AM) spies8claude: I just can't figure her out.
(5:11:24 AM) spies8owen: I've felt better about her lately. She's opened up more... but that's still not a lot.
(5:11:29 AM) spies8owen: Rarely do you get stances.
(5:11:33 AM) spies8claude: Yeah.
(5:11:35 AM) spies8owen: You just get info on things that have happened.
(5:11:42 AM) spies8claude: I think I've worked out that she just has low-self esteem
(5:11:58 AM) spies8owen: Yeah, she doesn't seem very confident.
(5:12:10 AM) spies8owen: Apparently she stood up to Brod tonight though.
(5:12:12 AM) spies8claude: That + being such a people pleaser.
(5:12:14 AM) spies8owen: Kudos.
(5:12:15 AM) spies8claude: Yeah
(5:12:17 AM) spies8claude: That was amusing.
(5:12:22 AM) spies8claude: Brod was just being..well..Brod.
(5:12:26 AM) spies8claude: Stuck on things that don't matter.
(5:12:36 AM) spies8owen: If I had a vig shot... I don't think I need to finish that sentence.
(5:12:52 AM) spies8claude: lol
(5:13:11 AM) spies8owen: I think he's scummy, and on top of that, he makes the game less enjoyable for plenty of people.
(5:13:30 AM) spies8owen: I'd be in chats more if not for him. That sounds pathetic, but it's true.
(5:13:34 AM) spies8owen: I don't want to deal with his bullshit.
(5:13:38 AM) spies8claude: that sucks. :-(
(5:13:51 AM) spies8owen: Tonight he says that being rude isn't productive.
(5:13:58 AM) spies8claude: lol
(5:14:01 AM) spies8claude: Looooooooook who's talking.
(5:14:05 AM) spies8claude: That was the general response to that.
(5:14:20 AM) spies8owen: The other night he IM's me with this...
(5:14:21 AM) spies8owen: (10:07:49 PM) spies8broderick: For someone who is never around, you sure do have a lot of judgement to pass. ;-)
(1:40:00 AM) spies8broderick: lol. Seriously? Some one is a pussy
(5:14:44 AM) spies8owen: (1:40:35 AM) spies8owen: Someone doesn't want to be just another person to have a nasty argument with you.
(1:40:54 AM) spies8owen: If you'd like to talk without being a prick, sure thing.
(5:15:30 AM) spies8owen: (1:41:16 AM) spies8broderick: Rofl. you're funny
(1:41:18 AM) spies8owen: Haven't had an issue with that before, it's in chats where you turn into the Hulk.
(1:41:32 AM) spies8broderick: LMao. You're funny
(5:15:33 AM) spies8owen: So irritating.
(5:15:39 AM) spies8claude: heh
(5:16:03 AM) spies8owen: Then he accuses me of bandwagoning... onto disliking him.
(5:16:09 AM) spies8claude: hahaha
(5:16:14 AM) spies8claude: it's hard not to get on that wagon :-(
(5:16:24 AM) spies8owen: Came up with that conclusion on my own.
(5:43:41 AM) spies8claude: So are you usually on this late?
(5:44:59 AM) spies8owen: My schedule is all over the place right now since I'm sick, but usually I'm still up late.
(5:45:08 AM) spies8owen: Insomnia.
(5:45:20 AM) spies8claude: Ah.
(5:46:06 AM) spies8claude: who do you like as scum other than Awohali? What if he's town?
(5:47:15 AM) spies8owen: Most suspicious of: Broderick, Dane, Awohali, Kiara.
(5:47:20 AM) spies8owen: I could see Hambone as a wildcard spy.
(5:47:34 AM) spies8claude: I don't find that to be terribly likely, but if Chance can be town, I suppose anything is possible.
(5:48:07 AM) spies8claude: I'm having a hard time coming up with 4 people that I think are Spies
(5:49:35 AM) spies8owen: Broderick, Dane, Awohali/Cin (for "smart spy"), Kiara/Hambone/Jenny/Zed (though I'm starting to doubt that a bit after the Isaac convo)
(5:49:38 AM) spies8owen: Would be my guesses.
(6:04:07 AM) spies8owen: Think I'm gonna get going. Definitely should be on before the vote, but putting my vote on Kiara now just incase.
(6:04:16 AM) spies8claude: Okay, good talking to you
(6:04:32 AM) spies8owen: Same.