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Post by Broderick on Aug 4, 2010 1:56:33 GMT -6
Assuming that I survive Imprisonment tomorrow, I won't be here for the majority of the discussion time before Exile. ---------- If I do, my vote will be on: Cinnamyn.Here is my case that I posted Episode 7, which apparently did not get read by many people. Nor was it refuted by Cinnamyn.CinnamynTowards the beginning of the game I felt her to b more on the lurker side than anything. She wasn't really active publicly that I know of in group chats and things - however she did make a few posts with things addressed to multiple people. I thought she would turn into a vocal leader - sadly that has not happened. Nor has she really made any of her posts lately, and I rarely see her on AIM or in the group chats discussing things. I also think she lied and is not completely truthful about her suspects. I also think she may be a wagoner. On Sunday July 18th, I asked her who her top suspect was and she said: spies8cinnamyn (19:09:50): i think kiara probs rite now With the reasoning that she voted Allan as well as Kiara not having a read on both Magalie and Isaac, when Cinnamyn asked her during Episode 4. I asked her why these things made Kiara her top suspect, and she said: spies8cinnamyn (19:13:24): bcuz theyre thingz a spy wud do broderick, get ur head out of da gutter She eventually said that a citizen would not vote for Allan, and Kiara not having a read on either Magalie or Isaac when they were top suspects - showed she was trying to stay neutral. I asked her when Kiara voted for Allan, and it was the one from Episode 5. I told her how Tina swayed her off Allan, which led to her voting for Rondak. Cinnamyn had no idea this had happened. I asked her when the last time she talked to Kiara - she said ten minutes ago. Cinnamyn knew that Kiara suspected Tina, but had no idea why. I asked her why she didn't ask Kiara why she suspected Tina, and she said: spies8cinnamyn (19:19:47): nope, didnt no she wuz swayed by her I don't think the swaying matters here. It seems she doesn't really care why Kiara suspects these people. I asked Cinnamyn why Kiara seemed to be the groupthink choice at the time, the answer was the Kiara was suspicious. I asked why not before this episode and : spies8cinnamyn (19:23:42): magalie flipped spy n' she prevoted allan, both of which happened late last round spies8cinnamyn (19:23:55): which haz drawn my attenshin I asked her if she had any suspects other than Kiara. Zed and Awohali. Zed because of his late vote on Mags, it concerned her. Awohali because he was against Mags when she wasn't in danger of being Exiled, but when she was - he had switched to Jenny and Chance. It seems to me that part of Awohali being suspicious is because he suspects Jenny and Chance - both of whom at the time of this conversation are not suspects of Cinnamyn's. So it seems to me that if you suspect someone who Cinnamyn doesn't - you are there fore suspicious. spies8cinnamyn (19:59:45): bcuz awohali iz still on jenny, 2 spies8cinnamyn (19:59:53): and jenny haz slipped down 4 me I had asked Cinnamyn why she didn't suspect Mary for doing essentially the same thing as Awohali had done in regards to voting Magalie. Cinnamyn admitted that Mary had, to a slightly lesser extent. I asked her why she then did not suspect Mary for the same thing, and she had said 'because Awohali is still on Jenny, 2 & Jenny has slipped down for me'. Which I have taken to mean, that Awohali is partly suspicious for that reasoning, because he is suspecting Jenny, whom Cinnamyn at the time was not suspecting. She made a comment that she found something weird about Awohali. I asked her why not ask him - she said she had a headache, and she was already talking with four people. I told her I found it suspicious that she had maybe talked to one of her suspects, when all three had been online. Which is where I now became a suspect. Later the next day we got in an argument, because she didn't understand how I found it suspicious that naming me towards the end of the conversation after I said she had done something suspicious looked incredibly OMGUS. She stated that she had told Gertrude about suspecting me. Which I can't confirm from Gertrude, as she uses Meebo and it wasn't auto-logging her chats, and she didn't copy it to her confessional, however to be noted - she did not remember it happening. She did however remember that Cinnamyn said I had a bad voting record. Chance confirmed that Cinnamyn said this. But I don't think saying someone has a bad voting record is an automatic leap to them being one of your suspects. When I spoked with her yesterday, she admitted that part of it was OMGUS and that I had a good point about her leaving me off when I originally asked who she suspected. Condensing a little bit. Sunday, July 18 - her suspects: Kiara, Zedekiah, Awohali, (Broderick) The Night of Exile/ Wednesday, July 21st - her suspects: Kiara, Zedekiah, Jenny I asked her yesterday morning if it was true about the suspect switch, and why both Awohali and myself dropped off, and Jenny was up there. pies8cinnamyn (09:15:5): u n' awohali had slipped down 4 me bcuz wen i talked 2 yall both of u made me feel better about u spies8cinnamyn (09:15:18): so naturally u went down, while jennyz bad voting reazinz dat day, made her go up According to Awohali, Cinnamyn spoke to him on Monday, July 19th. Very briefly and it was regarding his voting for Magalie. Which seemed to be her major point against him. I asked her in her 'Spotlight on Awohali' thread if that was what made her feel better about Awohali, and she confirmed it was. Now she is back on Awohali. I find it a 'crime' of opportunity if you will. I believe she suspected Awohali because of his interactions with Magalie, she then felt better about him because of his reasoning about his interactions with Magalie. She then jumped back on him at what I believe was a time that he was getting attention from other people, and his name was brought up. Is she still suspicious of Jenny? I don't know that answer currently. However Jenny's reasons for her vote this episode are just as sucky as last. Yet Cinnamyn seems to have no qualms about suspecting Awohali even though Jenny and Chance do. Over all I think she suspects people based on how much their name is spoken in the current episode. ----- Here are things which I have found/added since I posted it originally two episodes ago:Timeline of Jenny suspicion: July 1 / Episode 3Thinks Jenny is a good vote. She voted Mags. Monday, July 5th. / Episode 4spies8cinnamyn (19:31:4): i am thinkin' jenny or izaac at dis point spies8cinnamyn (19:32:10): jenny cuz her role shit n' nowin' bout nita n' saying ppl she thinks r citz 4 shure spies8cinnamyn (19:32:24): not tryin' 2 persuade ppl frum not voting ppl she think iz citz [This is Episode 4. She is debating between Jenny and Isaac. She said she was voting for Jenny, but we can not know for sure due to the vote shroud.] July 6th / Episode 4Bumped Jenny up to three votes, because she wanted to see Isaac and JennyEpisode 5
Sunday, July 18th / Episode 6
spies8cinnamyn (19:59:53): and jenny haz slipped down 4 me
Wednesday, July 21st / Night of Exile 6
[Jenny went back up on her suspect list]
spies8cinnamyn (09:15:18): so naturally u went down, while jennyz bad voting reazinz dat day, made her go up
Episode 7
[Don't currently know what her stance on Jenny was this episode]
Thursday, July 29th / Episode 8
spies8cinnamyn (15:13:11): well da reazin i aks iz bcuz jenny iz sayin' kiara will check her tonite and say she iz a cit
spies8cinnamyn (15:13:18): but im not rulin' out dat both kiara n' jenny r spiez
spies8cinnamyn (15:15:16): datz wut jenny iz claimin' kiara wil do, which i mean i think she prob will
spies8cinnamyn (15:16:37): but itz clear 2 me jenny shud get exiled regardliss wut kiara sez
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Post by Broderick on Aug 4, 2010 1:57:31 GMT -6
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Post by Broderick on Aug 4, 2010 2:03:07 GMT -6
[Quick commentary before I forget. I find it quite interesting that Cinnamyn wanted Jenny on the block for both Episodes three and four - when a spy was up. Still need to find her Jenny stance for Episode five when Mags was exiled.]
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Post by Hambone on Aug 4, 2010 10:35:44 GMT -6
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Post by Cinnamyn on Aug 4, 2010 10:37:01 GMT -6
yea. allen wuz very obviously a cit at da tyme, yet kiara voted him. wen awohali threw doubt on2 owen wen i thot owen wuz a supercit, i thot it wuz suspishis. and continuin' 2 throw suspishin on chance wen he iz a mason iz beyond ridiculous and suspishis.
it iz 2 me. sum1 wit' a bad voting record iz a suspect.
yes, i changed my secondary suspectz in three whole days. wutz ur point.
inishally i did feel better about it, but after comparing it 2 votez of hiz in the past, i found it 2 b inconsistent.
chance iz da only 1 who had brought up awohali 2 me prior 2 my case. i chatted briefly wit' jenny da day wen i posted my case and she sed she suspected him 2, but i wuz already writing it. i had no idea how n e 1 else thot on him, nor did i kno rondak, gert, and owen were voting him up until they did.
y wud i have a qualm about suspecting my main suspect.? and espeshally if 1 person i think iz a cit and 1 person i wuz uneazy about thinkin' da same az i do.?
round 5 i still suspected jenny. but she wuz 1. not nominated 2. magalie had 2 go. but i dont really kno wut ur getting at here. ur analysis iz correct 4 da mos' part, and i do change my suspectz depending on theyre ackshinz and such given da current round. but iznt dat da natural ebb and flo of suspishin.?
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Post by Jasmine on Aug 4, 2010 14:26:57 GMT -6
 Seems all you do, Hambone, agree with other people. 
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Post by Broderick on Aug 4, 2010 18:07:19 GMT -6
Cinnamyn + OMGUSspies8broderick (21:43:1): Who do you think the spies are Cinnamyn? spies8cinnamyn (21:43:31): kiara, rondak, and... spies8cinnamyn (21:43:48): 2 of owen/mary/brod/claude spies8cinnamyn (21:44:0): i think da rolegroup wuz poisoned badly spies8broderick (21:44:58): I wasn't in the role group spies8cinnamyn (21:45:28): yea well u r in there cuz i think u talk a lot of talk but u dont walk a lot of walk spies8broderick (21:45:35): But interesting that I'm back on your list. spies8cinnamyn (21:45:38): not cuz da role group spies8broderick (21:45:42): What walk am I not walking? spies8cinnamyn (21:45:57): i think u sit back and play devils advocate but dont make pushes
spies8broderick (21:46:8): I posted a case on you episode 7.
spies8cinnamyn (21:46:12): then wen da burg makes a mistake u uze it as keystone turning points
spies8broderick (21:46:21): I also was the only one to defend Awohali when he was being exiled in that group chatspies8broderick (21:46:47): So, again. What walk am I not walking? spies8cinnamyn (21:46:55): so how did u defending him help us.? spies8cinnamyn (21:47:4): da exile wuz between 2 citz spies8claude (21:47:15): Did you express any suspicion toward Broderick prior to this, Cinn? spies8broderick (21:47:32): You say that I sit back. I just provided two instances that I did not sit back. spies8cinnamyn (21:47:32): a while back, which had mos'ly dissipated spies8cinnamyn (21:48:0): but i get a bad feeling about how condescending he iz 2 ppl while i dont c him tryin' 2 do much spies8broderick (21:48:19): lol [Chat transcript from after Jenny's exile.] [Cinnamyn obviously said that I sit back and don't make pushes. Which I took as her accusing me of not doing anything. I told her (which you can see) that I posted a case on her Episode 7 and that I was the only one to defend Awohali in the group chat before he was exiled and after his claim. She then switched to asking how that helps. That is not what she accused me of originally. I see this as suspicious because she is changing the topic because I refuted her point. I mention this entire thing, because it was roughly twenty minutes after I said Cinnamyn was one of my top suspects. She did the same thing the last time she said she suspected me. It had come after I said something she had done was suspicious. Which she later admitted to it being.] spies8cinnamyn (09:16:21): it wuznt da argument, da 1 where i sed ur record wuz bad, afterwardz i thot about it and i thot u brot gud points up about me leavin' u off spies8cinnamyn (09:18:50): i also think i did probly give u a lil' omgus towardz da end, cuz i wuz tired n' pist off lmbo spies8claude (21:47:15): Did you express any suspicion toward Broderick prior to this, Cinn? spies8cinnamyn (21:47:32): a while back, which had mos'ly dissipated [Could you elaborate on this please? I don't recall any legitimate suspicion of me from you, at all.] ---------- Kiara never officially voted for Allan. She changed her vote at the behest of Tina. None of these people have been or are completely cleared as citizens - unless there is some cop role out there which we don't know about. Some one may look like a citizen, but it doesn't mean they are. I find it scummy that you suspect people because they are suspecting someone that you may find to be citizen at the time. If they are super crappy reasons, I could see that. But it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the reasons, but merely the act of suspecting. As far as I know, Awohali did not throw doubt onto Owen. That piece of your case against him - was and still is weak and stretching. Saying some one is not in the chat, how is that throwing suspicion? Was Owen the only Senator on at the time who was not in the chat? Who was throwing suspicion onto Chance? As far as I know, Chance revealed after Awohali was Exiled. Is that a spyslip there? Or are you talking about some one else?  spies8cinnamyn (09:16:21): it wuznt da argument, da 1 where i sed ur record wuz bad, afterwardz i thot about it and i thot u brot gud points up about me leavin' u off
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Post by Cinnamyn on Aug 4, 2010 20:27:01 GMT -6
broderick i dont no how many times i gotta tell u this but i suspected u 4 a shitty voting record. i also think u play devils advocate while not making any large pushes so u can point out 2 ppl wen dey fail dat dey did sumthin' wrong. itz mos'ly in da way u act, which iz y u have never been on da top of my list but lingering there in recent timez.
it wuz da weakest point, but a point nonetheless. it wuz casting doubt on owen, who had a great track record and did not feel gud, but awohali went and sed dat he felt there wuz no reazin 4 him 2 not b in da chat. which iz saying owen iz not doing hiz duty az senator, which translates 2 casting doubt and suspishin on him.
u r throwing suspishin on chance now. u refuse 2 believe he iz a cit after gertie wuz imprisoned and they were MASONZ. datz wut im talkin' about.i dont get wut ur smart ass winky faces r supposed 2 mean.? after i talked 2 u i dropped the suspishin 4 da mos' part, which iz y i sed my suspishin of u dissipated.i already answered dis 4 u.u 4got 2 put how u responded.spies8broderick: (12:40:06 PM)Awohali I have a pretty neutral read on. He spy hunts and he is decently active spies8broderick: (12:40:37 PM)But the way he says some things is a bit weird to me so dat iz clearly not a crime of opportunity that u r tryin' 2 paint it az, if u did not suspect him.u've obviously never tryed 2 make a hard push against a spy.
when garnering votez 2 exile a spy, a shitty citizen haz jus' az much of a vote az a supercit. if sum1 wants 2 vote 4 sum1 i think iz a spy, im going 2 b happy. if 1 persun haz a bad reazin, im not going 2 do a 180 and change my top suspect. furthermore, i thot chance had a gud reazin.
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Post by Cinnamyn on Aug 4, 2010 20:32:10 GMT -6
u find it weird that i wanted jenny nominated round 3 and 4 wen u nominated jenny round 3 while i nominated magz and u also nominated jenny round 4.?
pot, kettle, black. |
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Post by Chance on Aug 4, 2010 20:49:17 GMT -6
u find it weird that i wanted jenny nominated round 3 and 4 wen u nominated jenny round 3 while i nominated magz and u also nominated jenny round 4.?
pot, kettle, black.hahahaha. win. |
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Post by Mary on Aug 4, 2010 20:59:22 GMT -6
Sorry I've been so busy here at the hospital lately. People just won't stay strapped down, and it's all I can do to maintain control of the situation.
I want to get my thoughts down, so I've been scanning the forums and compiling this list of observations today, and I'll be online tonight.
Chance--Cit.
Why? Gertrude said so.
Devil's advocate: Awohali also said so.
Counter: Gertrude was anal, and despite making a few notable bloopers (see: failure to submit vote), I don't see her botching this "guarantee".
Claude--probably a Cit.
Why? Despite a few forays into the insane, he's generally had good reasons for all his suspicions and has jumped on and backed off suspects at the right time, in my opinion, based on available evidence. It's a natural unforced ease that's hard to fake, and I don't think he's capable of faking it, as he wears his emotions on his sleeve.
Devil's Advocate: He pushed a bad exile early for sketchy reasons, claimed unnecessarily, and then cleaned up his act. Followed by a long obsession with Chance.
Counter: He could have easily voted Chance to save his own ass, but didn't. Chance was scummy and deserved all the votes he got, and Claude managed to get off Chance to pursue Isaac, which yields Cit points.
Jasmine--probably a Cit.
Why? Pure read from episode 2. She brought up Isaac's suspects in a private chat with me, and I remarked that they were different from what he told me, and the discussion proceeded naturally and she asked if she should post a case on Isaac. Felt genuine to me, but I understand if it doesn't translate. Ties in to other interactions she had with Isaac.
Devil's advocate: Never actually voted Isaac, and doesn't appear to have voted for a Spy. Hasn't scumhunted aggressively.
Counter: Most of her votes seemed reasonable at the time, and the most questionable vote is probably Margot over Isaac/Magalie.
Broderick--probably a Cit.
Why? The guy makes cases. I disagreed with the first four or five, but the reasoning and care put into the cases were indicative of cithood. He seems to pay attention to the important things, or at least the things I see as significant.
Devil's advocate: He has yet to sell anyone on his perspective, which could be due to intentional abrasiveness. Who wants to take sides with an asshole?
Counter: Who cares if he's an asshole to some? I actually enjoy talking with him and he tries to make his cases, even if his approach to interpersonal communications sucks. He's probably an asshole Cit.
Stephanie--probably a Cit.
Why? She's not calculating. She lets it hang out, and it feels like she's actually trying to reason out the puzzle of Spies. I feel like her suspicions have been appropriate to the situations at hand. I think her voting record since the merge is excellent given the information she likely had available at the time.
Devil's advocate: She voted Chance over Magalie and Dane over Alexei.
Counter: Chance was a good vote. She actively tried to save Zedekiah and Awohali and did not dogpile Themba.
Kiara--leaning Cit.
Why? Her attitude towards Jenny's suspicions looked Cit. Kiara was watching arguments carefully and trying to draw distinctions.
Devil's advocate: Her last-minute roleclaim gave Zed and the Senators no chance to make a reasoned decision. Yes, she likely has the role. But could a Spy know/invent everything she's told us? Yes. Her vote on Rondak over Magalie looks sketchy.
Counter: none
Owen--leaning Cit.
Why? He was 3rd on the Alexei wagon, voted Isaac of his own accord, was easily persuaded to vote Isaac at Dictatorial Showdown #1, and voted Magalie before dropping off the face of the earth.
Devil's advocate: What would a Spy in his Dictator position do? Exactly what he did. He had evidence that Chance had a role, and thus was inclined to vote Magalie. He was lobbied hard to vote Isaac, and he did. Two power citizens made a case on Alexei, and he saw the writing on the wall. Also, he seemed to wagon at exiles 6, 7 and 8 without contributing much of a case.
Counter: Look into evidence that Owen may have pushed Alexei before Tina and Nita did. Also, his lone vote for Isaac at Exile 3 is meaningful if he put weight behind it, so look into that. He seemed to be interested in voting Magalie before she was nominated. He's sounded Cittish to me.
Lawrence--leaning Cit.
Why? New Lawrence is making good observations about the game that indicate he's trying to puzzle things out. His vote on Jenny had good reasoning behind it, and one of his initial reasons for suspecting Dane (Rondak vote) had meat behind it. He voted Magalie at Themba's exile alongside Stephanie and Themba.
Devil's advocate: Old Lawrence was scummy. His episode 2 case post was terrible and he kept putting off a promised case on Isaac, among others. His vote for Magalie might mean nothing if it was clear at the time that Themba was cooked--look into this. New Lawrence has not made a particularly deep case on any one spy candidate, and deep cases are more likely to be seen from Citizens.
Counter: none.
Hambone--leaning Spy.
Why? Process of elimination, even though his tone is Cittish to me. He stuck on Jenny for an eternity and was #4 on Alexei with stated reason "that's a good case, Tina". Hasn't actively scumhunted since making a case on Jenny and sticking to it. Fought with Dane as the Alexei case was coming to light, and unlike Dane, quickly agreed with the case and shifted his vote.
Devil's advocate: Made a few cases that looked thoughtful. Seemed to be looking for contradictions with Allan and Jenny. If he hadn't swung to Alexei, the exile might not have happened.
Counter: Some have said his thoughtful cases were derivative. Look into this.
Dane--leaning Spy.
Why? Antagonistic the entire game and seems to make points to clarify facts but often fails to leave his opinions. Was #5 on Alexei under curious circumstances--read the group chat log to see he and Hambone fight when the Alexei case was posted, then Dane asks about people's other suspects instead of reading the case, then logs, then comes back to accuse Stephanie, then votes Alexei instead of Stephanie for stated reasons "using bad info" plus "big wagon". Rondak vote at Magalie exile looks sketchy. Zed vote despite not particularly suspecting him looks sketchy.
Devil's advocate: Corrects incorrect arguments, which has a Cittish lean. Might have been the tip vote on Alexei vs. Zedekiah. Sometimes seems to ask tough questions.
Counter: Seemed to get more active when under suspicion.
Cinnamyn--leaning Spy.
Why? Shifty worldview. Asked Claude a lot of questions when Claude was looking most Cit, made no sense. Inconsistent and unexplained shifts on Chance/Claude approach Exile 2 and 3. Seemed to quickly float to Kiara, Zed and Jenny suspicions at Exile 6. Made a case on Awohali E7 after not suspecting him much previously. Pushed Jenny at the Isaac exile.
Devil's advocate: Has posted cases that are decent. Seems at times to use logic to poke holes in poor cases.
Counter: Check to see whether the logic consistently protects certain people and avoids protecting others. "Curiosity" seems to have resulted in votes I don't often agree with.
Rondak--leaning Spy.
Why? Inconsistent suspicions and worldview. Gives one list of four suspects, and moments later tells group chat he's voting for a fifth. Finds someone suspect for disagreeing with the cases posted by three people--three crappy cases posted by three people Rondak supposedly suspects. Inconsistent belief system. Seemed to use newbishness early as an excuse for poor suspicions and play. Seemingly pure wagon vote on Alexei supported by flimsy case to make the vote look less suspect. Wagon vote on Awohali for stated reason "don't like his dismantling of Jenny/Chance cases". Yet, Rondak's stated top suspects were Jenny, Chance and Cinnamyn, who were all voting Awohali. That would clue a Cit in that Awohali might be a bad vote, but Rondak took no notice.
Devil's advocate: Voted Alexei.
Counter: Alexei was getting exiled anyway.
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Post by Chance on Aug 4, 2010 22:42:47 GMT -6
as of right now, should enough people vote for claude or kiara that there's a possibility of them being exiled, i will vote for one of them. if not, i will be voting for rondak.
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Post by Hambone on Aug 5, 2010 10:00:32 GMT -6
Excuuuuuuse me Mary but I just made a case on Dane like 2 days ago so I don't know wtf you're talking about saying I haven't made a case on Jenny. That whole activity to me I took as trying to make cases on people.
As for being #4 on the Alexei vote, I was talking to Nita and Tina about it for the whole day. I just didn't place my vote until later -__- DOES THIS MAKE ME A BAD MAN. Everyone, including you, thought Jenny was Mafia so fucking shutup. I went after her basically every week because I was convinced she was Mafia, just like Claude was convinced Magalie was a Citizen and just like he tunneled on Chance week after week after week. How is this not the same thing? And yet you rank him as leaning Citizen or w/e you said.
I knew this Jenny bullshit would bite me in the ass BUT YOU ALL VOTED FOR HER (minus chance). The evidence was there for weeeeeeeeks.
spies8hambone: (3:38:29 PM)Hey Nita, who are you suspectin?
spies8Nita: (3:38:59 PM) I'm suspectin Alexei I think
spies8Nita: (3:39:12 PM) Wanna know why? Just ask
spies8hambone: (3:39:54 PM)I would like to know why yea
spies8hambone: (3:40:27 PM)so why alexei
spies8Nita: (3:40:34 PM) #1, the Zedekiah thing
spies8hambone: (3:40:39 PM)that he pushed hard
spies8Nita: (3:40:57 PM) And was the one who made it seem like over somethin as dumb as loggin off, now there's a case on Zedekiah
spies8Nita: (3:41:03 PM)[21:34] spies8alexei: I'm not sure if that helped your case
spies8Nita: (3:41:10 PM) Oh now there's a case? Cause you say so?
spies8Nita: (3:41:21 PM) And yeah he push the hombre hard
spies8Nita: (3:41:25 PM) Over somethin dumb
spies8hambone: (3:41:26 PM)yeah
spies8hambone: (3:41:28 PM)i saw that too
spies8hambone: (3:41:36 PM)i even asked him
spies8hambone: (3:41:46 PM)why he was pushing on Z so hard over something so retarded
spies8Nita: (3:41:55 PM) Alexei, what he say?
spies8hambone: (3:41:59 PM)lemme go check
spies8hambone: (3:42:23 PM)spies8alexei: (6:42:02 PM)I may be too aggressive on the lynch thing, I know, but, I suppose that's how I play
spies8Nita: (3:42:44 PM) So talkin bout lynchin him too
spies8Nita: (3:42:54 PM) Again over somethin dumb
This is before the case was even made on Alexei. Hopefully I didn't post too much of it, but whatever.
Also, to OWEN, completely off-topic but Brody told me that you didn't like that I said I would vote you out if you were still alive in a couple weeks... I am changing this statement to "I will maybe vote you out if there is one Spy left". As much as I love you, you hit 3 spies basically in a row, then vanished, and got multiple citizen, one after another, and now you're barely helping although everyone perceives you as 100% citizen, basically our leader. But you're still alive. I don't get it.
Alright, I'm done rambling for now.
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Lawrence
Lawrence
Larry Wonder!
Posts: 9
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Post by Lawrence on Aug 5, 2010 13:03:39 GMT -6
My vote, right now, is for Claude.
His voting record so far is Camilla, Isaac, Chance, ?, Chance, Chance, Chance, Jenny.
This is fishy in and of itself. He took a very strong stance on both Camilla and Chance (Citizens) being criminals. He also defended Magalie quite heavily. His only vote on a criminal, Isaac, was made because he was unable to vote for Chance. This would be an easy scenario for a criminal to look Citizen later down the road, and from what I have seen, it didn't look like Isaac would be Exiled that round. His role has obvious criminal benefits (messing with the Citizen's only weapon against the criminals.) Claimed his role to save himself, but originally tried to say it was for "information." Has "forgotten" to use his role in a couple episodes. Judging by the nature of his role, I would not call it outrageous to say he chose not to use the role in order to avoid being suspected based on it. Speaking of that, the way he used his role on Owen in episode six still bothers me. Once Gertrude came out with her information on Chance, he slid his vote on to Jenny. Admittedly, we all voted for her, so this point alone a criminal does not make. However, this round, he has used his role on Cinnamyn. I take this to mean that he is suspecting her now.
Once his safe suspect who he never got Exiled (Chance) gets cleared, he jumps on to the two leading wagons. I am fairly confident in this vote, but I do have a couple questions.
Who did you vote for during the anonymous nominations? I assume it was Chance, but I want to be sure.
What made you trust the other members of the Senate over Owen during the episode you limited him?
Why did you limit Owen, but totally take away Cinnamyn's vote? Is there a role-based reason for this, or are you more distrustful of Cinnamyn than you were of Owen?
Edited for typo.
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Post by Chance on Aug 5, 2010 13:21:56 GMT -6
excuse you.
it wasn't me. i received no votes during that exile and was thus unable to use my own power.
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Post by Hambone on Aug 5, 2010 13:33:45 GMT -6
Chance, I clarified in the next paragraph by saying "minus chance"  ur welcome |
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Kiara
Kiara
little one
Posts: 76
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Post by Kiara on Aug 5, 2010 13:55:09 GMT -6
it wasn't me. i received no votes during that exile and was thus unable to use my own power. i believe it was isaac, which thinking about it i find very odd considering his constant tunneling you... |
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Post by Claude on Aug 5, 2010 20:11:33 GMT -6
Lawrence: I have never stated that I claimed my role to 'save myself'. Nothing even remotely of the sort. Chance made this statement at some point, and just decided that it was true. It was not. As I said then, when Chance became Exile Immune, I figured that I would get lynched, and claimed for the sake of providing information. That's it. As for targetting Owen. Of the members of the Senate at the time, I trusted him least. This is largely due to the fact that he repeatedly ignored my case on Chance. Not said it was bad or anything of the sort, he just refused to talk about it. Being entirely convinced that Chance was a Spy, this made me feel that Owen might also be a Spy and protecting him. Since then, obviously I have learned that Chance is not a Spy, but that Owen WAS intentionally ignoring my case on Chance. Owen has told me multiple times that my case was great, and I was correct on most of my points against Chance. And that this is why he didn't say anything at the time. He didn't defend Chance because I was right in the points I was making. He just knew about the masonry etc. As for Cinnamyn. At first I thought she was fine. She was involved in discussions, was posting forum threads, etc. But as time has passed, she hasn't gotten more involved in the game. If anything, she has become less so. I also feel that there was a bus vote somewhere on the Magalie wagon, and Cinnamyn is the most likely culprit. Her participation in that wagon was lacking at best. She never provided much explanation as to why she was voting Magalie, she just did so. It feels like a setup. The questions she posed to people never really went anywhere, and she has been noticeably less active in the group chats. So yes, I am more mistrustful of her than I was of Owen. I only limited Owen's votes(as opposed to using one of my other abilities) because my suspicion on him was minor. I wouldn't have voted to Exile him or anything. I will say, though, that my suspicion against him has grown somewhat recently. For one thing, I feel that the Spies should have Imprisoned him by now, and it definitely strikes me as off that he is still alive. I mean like..Broderick got Imprisoned today. Not Chance or Owen..Broderick. The logical assumption for this is that he was onto something with his case against Cinnamyn, but it still bugs me. I also feel that the Spies did not 'figure out' Gertrude's role. Trying to hold anyone accountable for voting Jenny is ridiculously scummy. A confirmed citizen claimed to have investigated her as a Spy. Obviously she was going to get lynched. Now I'm voting Cinnamyn. The case that Broderick made against her was fantastic, and her responses were lacking, among other reasons that I've already discussed.
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Lawrence
Lawrence
Larry Wonder!
Posts: 9
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Post by Lawrence on Aug 5, 2010 20:54:14 GMT -6
In the above post, you say you claimed to provide information. At the bottom of this post you claim the opposite. I do not like this contradiction. Also, you state that you didn't claim to save yourself, but you claimed because you were probably going to be lynched. Doesn't that translate into the same thing? I understand and don't find fault with your points on Owen. However, you say that the case on Cinnamyn made by Broderick was fantastic. What is the difference between it now and in the round it was originally posted (when Awohali was Exiled)? |
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Post by Claude on Aug 5, 2010 21:14:42 GMT -6
I answered your first question in group chat, so.
As for why I'm only looking at the Cinnamyn case now. When I first learned about Chance's role, I felt that him being town probably meant that someone that was against him was a Spy(Gertrude and I had a long conversation about this, in group chat, before they finally told me about everything). The 4 people most involved in the case against Chance were myself, Mary, Broderick, and Awohali. I'm not a Spy, I've always had a town read on Broderick, and mostly always on Mary. That only really left Awohali. Owen and Chance also pushed hard against Awohali in the 'heavenandhell' chats, and I had been in a group chat with Awohali, Jenny, and Broderick where Awohali really, really bullied Jenny. So, I came to the conclusion that he was probably the Spy on Chance's wagon, and accordingly, my attention was focused on him. Then when he died, the whole Jenny situation came up. Now that's been resolved, and Chance has finally outed himself, so I can stop pretending to still be suspicious of him, also.
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Lawrence
Lawrence
Larry Wonder!
Posts: 9
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Post by Lawrence on Aug 5, 2010 21:41:40 GMT -6
But still, I don't believe you commented on the case whatsoever, leaving yourself open to fall back on it if needed. I feel as though your "suspicion" of Chance (which you now admit is fake) was used by you to have safe votes at Exiles. Since I've been here, I don't remember seeing you comment much on current events. Your post comes off as other people pushing for Awohali, not you. I don't feel like you have done much other than hide behind the Chance suspicion, and now you are jumping on popular bandwagons. This is the main reason why I feel you are a criminal, and my vote remains.
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Post by Cinnamyn on Aug 5, 2010 21:44:57 GMT -6
and u aint dun tha same.? errybody haz slowed down. im not makin' an excuse 4 myself, cuz i kno i have, but im tryin' 2 get better, wut with me pushing awohali and trying 2 talk with ppl 1 on 1.this iz y i voted magalie round 3 and 5. i nominated jenny round 4 bcuz i suspected jenny/izaac/magalie, and of the three, jenny need 2 b bumped up and magalie had no votez.who wuz doin' that.? certinly not me.
if i had a vote dis round it wud b 4 rondak. he haz gotten by long enuf while admitting that he iz bandwagoning. we dont need him 2 magalie by again while ppl just let him go. jus' bcuz u admit 2 sumthing dont make it rite. he haz not spyhunted, never had clear suspects, and waits 2 c wut other ppl r thinking b4 declaring who he suspects. |
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Post by Jasmine on Aug 5, 2010 21:55:18 GMT -6
if i had a vote dis round it wud b 4 rondak.
But, of course you can't vote. Only white women, with no minority is able to vote. Transexuality and being black means they take away your rights.
Kiara, Mary, And Stephanie = White Women. Fuck This.
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Owen
Owen
The Cituation
Posts: 99
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Post by Owen on Aug 6, 2010 2:36:43 GMT -6
Before I get to my vote:
(10:38:11 PM) spies8claude: How do you feel about voting Chance today
(10:40:32 PM) spies8owen: I've talked to him a bit more lately -- actually have a decent feeling on him. Nobody has really presented anything too solid TO ME on him.
(10:40:57 PM) spies8owen: Wouldn't be surprised if you guys were just tunneling on each other, frankly.
(10:43:36 PM) spies8claude: I seriously don't think that is the case.
(10:52:08 PM) spies8claude: I think you just weren't around him when he was really scummy. Who would you like to see nominated?
That's our first legitimate conversation about Chance. In our first convo before that, I hadn't even talked to Chance yet. I don't agree that I blatantly avoided it. I would have LIKED to blatantly avoid it, would have been a hell of a lot less stressful.
Nothing more annoying than hearing this over and over. When people like Hambone are saying they'll vote me if I'm around in 2 rounds, of course I'm going to be kept around. There's also been increasing suspicion on me for rounds.
Also could have something to do with the fact that I am not a leader. I was appointed dictator, but have I been the one to go all out and lead things? Nope. I would like to be a leader, because that's what we need right now, but I can't force being something that I'm not. Broderick, on the other hand, was very much capable of setting things in motion, as is evident by his latest case on Cinnamyn.
And it ALSO could have something to do with the fact that I have openly complained about being overwhelmed and stressed about the game. People like Nita, Tina, Cory especially were diehard into the game while I would have been content and relieved for it to end at times. That would be the reason that I lobbied for both Tina and Cory to be protected over me.
Which also brings up the amount of times I was protected. If I'm correct, I've only been eligible to be killed 2 times since the beginning of Episode 4. It's hard for someone to be imprisoned when they're being protected from it. Cory easily could have been killed for being the doctor, as that makes him a confirmed citizen, and one that's more aggressive than me. Broderick had little to no suspicion on him anymore, even I came around and stopped suspecting him, and he was also clearly more aggressive than I am.
Suspicion on me, I can handle. Suspicion on me because I'm still alive when there's plenty of plausible reasons that I'm still alive, that irks me. There have been plenty of capable citizens with good voting records that have made it to the end Spies games, but citizens haven't been learning from past in earlier seasons for a while now, so this doesn't shock me.
I'd like to hear things other than "Owen should have been killed by now" and "he's smart, so he might have bussed" and "______'s imprisonment points toward Owen" (you know, even though almost everyone that's been imprisoned is someone that I had mutual trust with and people that supported me/kept my head in the game).
/RANT
Anyway... I think Im'ma be, Im'ma be, Im'ma be votin' Cinnamyn to the infinity, BEP, on some next level shit.
The main thing I see about Cinnamyn is that she (even admittedly) shifts a lot. However, I don't get the feeling that she's shifting because of new evidence as much as she's shifting for self preservation and to make herself look good. Broderick called an earlier thing she did a "crime of opportunity" and I think that's a fitting way to describe what I believe she's doing right now. Reading back on the chat the other night, it really seemed like she was doing everything in her power to see that one of the (not so) "trust group" was lynched. Rondak was mentioned, but she seemed much more suspicious of those of us who knew about the roles. When I spoke to her today, she was all about Rondak going. This was of course after Chance posted that if enough votes weren't there for Kiara or Claude, that he would be voting Rondak.
Was it just me that got the impression that she was way more suspicious of the role group than Rondak the other night, or am I losing it more than I already think I am?
Also, for those of you that are considering voting for Claude, I want you to keep in mind the votes against him at Exile 1. With the votes the way there were and Camilla clearly stating in the vote thread that she would be voting Claude, do you think Spysaac would keep his vote on him? Claude had a role that undoubtedly could help the spies, and it's also a role that wasn't even outed at the time. Would it benefit Isaac and the other spies to lynch one of their own that has a power role when they won't even look good afterwards (since it wasn't outed)? One could say that it wasn't a sure thing that Claude would go in a revote, but why even risk it?
I think it's doubtful that Claude is a spy. The only way I could see them bussing him that early with his role was if they knew that someone had a mortician-type role that could later confirm his role. I don't see a little bit of town credit being more important to the spies than Claude's role.
I shall talk to you all tomorrow (today). Tired as hell, so forgive me for potential typos that I haven't caught.
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Lawrence
Lawrence
Larry Wonder!
Posts: 9
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Post by Lawrence on Aug 6, 2010 9:07:54 GMT -6
This is quite a good point.
While Claude's play is less than spectacular, it is very difficult to picture Isaac and Claude as criminals together. I will change my vote to Cinnamyn. Broderick's case is sound . . . I was only skeptical of it because I was suspicious of Claude. I don't like the random suspicion of Rondak right now, as I feel mafia are likely to push a policy lynch during a time like this . . . and the only thing about Rondak that people find suspicious is "he flies under the radar." A nulltell.
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Post by Hambone on Aug 6, 2010 13:18:06 GMT -6
I dont know who to vote for yet. I'm still confused over everything since the Jenny reveal. I might vote for Dane based on the process of elimination for the Z voters/nominators, but I dont wanna be the only one voting for him. So I might vote for Cinamon because Brody's death points at her. I'd vote for Brondak as well, but like Lawrence just said I feel like voting for him is too easy. He's barely even defending himself.
Also, Cory was the doctor, Owen? THE SHIT YOU LEARN!! I thought it was Lillith cuz of her random death.
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Post by Chance on Aug 6, 2010 14:15:10 GMT -6
a few things.
incorrect. not policy lynching was how the citizens of spies 7 lost the game, first off. secondly, lurking is not the main reason i find rondak suspicious - i find suspicious the fact that his reason for voting me the episode he replaced in was changed more than once. it was, at different times, 'gut', 'suspicons that a-rondak had in his confessional', and 'for information'. rondak was clearly just trying to justify a bandwagon vote, and he's done nothing but bandwagon since. even his 'case' on cinnamyn, posted today, is bandwagoning (look at all the suspicion on cinnamyn since broderick's death and tell me it's not).
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Bizarrondak
Rondak
Everything is coming up Rondak.
Posts: 6
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Post by Bizarrondak on Aug 6, 2010 15:12:54 GMT -6
...and he's done nothing but bandwagon since. even his 'case' on cinnamyn, posted today, is bandwagoning (look at all the suspicion on cinnamyn since broderick's death and tell me it's not). dude, seriously, wtf do you all expect from me?! Do you just want me to make a new case, out of thin air, on someone that has never been mentioned or suspected by anybody else up until now?! Or would that be considered bandwagoning as well? |
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Post by Chance on Aug 6, 2010 15:20:23 GMT -6
...and he's done nothing but bandwagon since. even his 'case' on cinnamyn, posted today, is bandwagoning (look at all the suspicion on cinnamyn since broderick's death and tell me it's not). dude, seriously, wtf do you all expect from me?! Do you just want me to make a new case, out of thin air, on someone that has never been mentioned or suspected by anybody else up until now?! Or would that be considered bandwagoning as well? dude, seriously, you've been here for three episodes. the fact that your first case happens to be on the person currently getting the most suspicion from the burg is a coincidence i don't buy. |
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Bizarrondak
Rondak
Everything is coming up Rondak.
Posts: 6
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Post by Bizarrondak on Aug 6, 2010 15:24:28 GMT -6
dude, seriously, wtf do you all expect from me?! Do you just want me to make a new case, out of thin air, on someone that has never been mentioned or suspected by anybody else up until now?! Or would that be considered bandwagoning as well? dude, seriously, you've been here for three episodes. the fact that your first case happens to be on the person currently getting the most suspicion from the burg is a coincidence i don't buy. Fine, whatever suits you |
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they don't think it be like it is, but it do.
