Lawrence investigates - ep 3
Jun 30, 2010 21:25:05 GMT -6
Post by Lawrence on Jun 30, 2010 21:25:05 GMT -6
Doing it alphabetically again. Note that I try to look at both sides when doing this; I note what calls out to me one way or the other.
DANE
First episode, did a lot of demanding to know who people were voting.
[12:39] spies8dane: as of right now
[12:39] spies8dane: alexei, who are you voting
[12:39] spies8dane: gabriel, who are you voting
[12:39] spies8dane: jenny who are you voting you beautiful woman you
[12:39] spies8dane: and nita who are you voting
[16:21] spies8dane: jenny
[16:21] spies8dane: who is your temporary vote on, that you posted in your confessional
[16:22] spies8jenny: Oh, I put it on Zeddy for the time being.
[16:22] spies8dane: alright
[16:23] spies8Nita: Tina y yo are postin a case on Alexei
[16:23] spies8Nita: I put my parts up
[16:23] spies8dane: who is your biggest suspect after that?
He did seem a little over defensive when targeted by Stephanie and Alexei. However, was bein pushed by Alexei.
[04:13] spies8dane: I think at this point, the role sounds spyish, he was already extra suspicious from episode 1, and if he was a cit role, he wouldn't have "staked his life" on someone being a spy (and then get it wrong)
Not scummy, just noting something I disagree with. Later seems to change his mind. Sort of, anyway
spies8dane 12:20 pm
(12:20:00 PM): her point was that why would sam give such an overpowered spy role?
(12:20:08 PM): and I kinda agree
spies8dane 12:20 pm
(12:20:13 PM): but from the description of the role
spies8dane 12:20 pm
(12:20:17 PM): it is so utterly scummy
Question--Why were you pushing for votes so early, Dane? It seems like spy wanting to know which direction things are moving.
Summary--pushy, but targeted by a spy. Thinking cit right now.
ISAAC
Themba was republican at this time; Isaac democrat. spy slip or mistake?
Response from Isaac on this from private chat:
spies8lawrence 9:39 pm
(9:39:49 PM): Hey. Heads up on the post I'm collating right now. Can you explain this quote after parties were assigned? Sounds like a spyslip to me...spies8isaac (11:46:35 PM): Haven't talked to Themba much at all either. Always coming or going when I log in and then there is the one who's gone till Saturday, so ya definitly need to hit chat up when a few others are here. Have no reading on them yet what so ever
spies8isaac 9:42 pm
(9:42:05 PM): I don't remember saying that at all after parties were aligned. Sounds like it was early though as I apparently hadn't met many peeps
spies8lawrence 9:44 pm
(9:44:39 PM): It was early, yes. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn its a mistake-but it also wouldn't surprise me to learn its a spyslip.
spies8isaac 9:46 pm
(9:46:07 PM): Well it was just a mistake to be sure since I didn't even know the person's name who was gone till saturday....lol. I got better though with names after like the second day, but ya, was terrible remembering everyone
spies8lawrence 9:47 pm
(9:47:02 PM): Ok. Do you mimd if I copy this discussion into the post when I make it?
spies8isaac 9:48 pm
(9:48:07 PM): Knock yourself out, as I said I have nothing to hide and it was just a mistake on my part. I was just terrible with names until about halfway through day two when I finally met everyone on our team...lol
spies8isaac (3:25:18 PM): I have several problems with claude all of which I've made pulic. But I'll quickly list them all here.
spies8isaac (3:26:25 PM): 1) I find it odd he role claimed day 2. The way he claimed and stated it as well means nothing alignment wise to us so it's no real help.
spies8isaac (3:27:32 PM): 20 the certainty in which he believed people to be spies day one. I noticed after Cam disappeared he didn't really mention the whole "lynch me if she's town tomorrow" argument ever again in any great detail....odd
spies8isaac (3:28:18 PM): 3) What the heck is his problem with chance. Those two are going at it like a cat and dog and making no headway.
spies8isaac (3:28:51 PM): 4) using facts from what others have heard to base your thinking on without verifying it youself seems odd
That was his case on Claude. I can't say as I disagree with any of his points, but I don't think it would be enough to move on myself.
Question-Do you think its better to be certain and wrong, like Claude, or tentative/hesitant and willing to move around? Loaded question, I know, but since that was one of your points against him, it matters.
Summary-That's pretty much the book on Isaac as far as I can tell. He does seem to be focused on Jasmine at the moment, and her on him. Likely not spies together, unless they're trying to distance themselves. Which is more likely? I'm on the fence about this one, but leaning more spy.
STEPHANIE
She stood up for Zed early on. Whether this matters or not is yet to be seen.
[00:19] spies8stephanie: i am inclined to think that he is a cit who panicked
[00:19] spies8stephanie: and didn't read the question about LAST night
She worked with Alexei to push a case on Dane. But afterwards, seemed to try to separate herself from the spy.
spies8Stephanie: most of it caused by alex
spies8Stephanie: yes, jenny and i watched Z prove that alex was a spy, last night
spies8Themba: i will second that.
spies8Stephanie: it was fun
spies8Stephanie: i agreed that alex looked suspicious
spies8Tina: Although you never really considered voting Alexei though just to be sure.
spies8Stephanie: i was not here on sunday, or i would have
spies8Stephanie: when alex changed his vote to me
spies8Stephanie: and then i probably would have changed my vote to z when he made the hq remark
Tries also to make people look for a busser on the Alexei wagon. Maybe a good idea, maybe not. But combined with above, feels like classicx misdirection to me.
spies8Stephanie: i think it was clear that the majority of people were voting alex
spies8Stephanie: and that it was a clear bussing situation
spies8Stephanie: and i think there has to be spies on the alex vote
spies8Owen: I never felt it was completely certain Alexei would go, especially when votes started to change.
spies8Stephanie: and i wasn't around on sunday, so i don't know, but on saturday, it was looking pretty clear to me that alex was going
spies8Stephanie: well, as i started to say, i am looking at who among the alex voters look like spies to me
spies8Stephanie: and my top candidates are owen and rondak
spies8Stephanie: and i think that the spies were on the alex wagon
spies8Stephanie: it looks overwhelming
spies8Stephanie: if i were a spy, i would have voted alex
spies8Tina: *twitch*
spies8Nita: That ain't logic Stephanie
spies8Stephanie: ?
spies8Stephanie: i think the spies thought that they couldn't save him and so jumped on the wagon
Then, backs way off both of the other day 1 cases.
spies8Stephanie: my thoughts are that dane and Z were cleared by alex
spies8Tina: It was funny.
spies8Stephanie: i think dane is a clueless ass who should try to keep up with what's going on
spies8Owen entered the room.
spies8Stephanie: and z is just clueless, but at least mostly well-intentioned
Question-Why were you so gung ho about trying to find a busser? It seems to me that limits your field of candidates-something I've been accused of doinmg.
Summary-I don't like the feel of the separation/bushunting. Feels like spy to me.
THEMBA
I hunted around, but only found a couple things that really jumped out at me. First, she seems to post as a spy a little too often for my comfort.
[23:18] spies8themba: nonono. bussing a bad spy is a good thing.
[23:19] spies8rondak: What?
[23:19] spies8themba: i'd get rid of him too.
[23:19] spies8themba: he was bad at being a spy.
[23:19] spies8savannah: yes it seems reasonable
[23:19] spies8rondak: Alright, then, my mistake.
[23:19] spies8savannah: thats why you cant assume that just because he was a spy his buddies wouldnt vote for him
[23:20] spies8gabriel: spies are going to cut loose the dangers to their side early
[23:20] spies8themba: correct
[23:20] spies8themba: and, god bless him, he was a danger.
[23:42] spies8themba: Did you know you're the popular choice for Imprisonment hun?
[23:42] spies8Nita: You talkin bout it with the spies?
[23:42] spies8themba: Yep
Yeah, the second can easily be passed off as a joke. But it seems to happen somewhat often. Maybe a spy hiding in plain sight?
This is countered by this:
[20:45] spies8themba: i thought there were 6 spies?
Simple, direct, and wrong. And wouldn't a spy know how many there were?
Question-What makes you say Alexei was a danger? Can you point to anything in the burg? Thaat, more than anythinh else you've said, seems scummy.
Summary-I think cit for now. But, if Isaac proves to be spy, I would want to take a closer look just to be sure.'
TINA
She hit me on going with status quo, and why I'm not looking elsewhere. So, I'll start with her.
[18:56] spies8tina: Inquiring minds wish to know.
[19:05] spies8tina: Ok. So if you had to vote someone right now who would it be?
Wow, do those two quotes seem to sum Tina up.
An early attempt to draw people out:
[21:23] spies8tina: Ok, one second. Lets force an opinion or two for the neutral observers.
[21:23] spies8tina: Alexei, what is your thought on all this?
[19:09] spies8tina: Hello to you as well. Who are you voting?
spies8tina 6:02 pm
Why not force discussion if there is not much to discuss.
Her comments while people were pushing Zed.
Regarding Zed:
[00:08] spies8tina: I personally still do not think its a good enough thing to exile on.
[00:09] spies8tina: It seems to mainly center around not knowing enough about AIM.
[19:56] spies8tina: He is thinking for himself. It is a good thing.
[19:57] spies8tina: In his position, it is a strong citizen tell I would expect.
[22:46] spies8tina: Ok. I am changing my vote to Zek. That HQ thing is horrible, he gave a slightly different reason to Gabe than me, and he is not doing any sort of spy hunting. I just think this is the better move. Alexei is showing some signs of trying to hunt spies, is more interested in the good of the group then the good of himself. Yes it is last minute but I think it is the right move.
She starts out saying its not strong enough, but apparently him saying hq instead of burg is enough toi get her to switch. Oh, and then she gets a cheap shot in.
[23:36] spies8tina: Zek does not count. Person involves some form of intelegence.
[00:12] spies8tina: Much more interested in a move against someone like alexei.
[00:12] spies8tina: Mayyyyybe savannah.
The first two exiled were Alexei and Savannah. Weird. Driving force?
[20:01] spies8tina: They both seemed like they would vote him last I spoke with them. Just trying to keep tabs on as many peoples thought process as possible.
[20:02] spies8tina: I feel that if you can learn how someone thinks, you can much easier figure out when they are trying to think wrong.
You explain yourself here, somewhat. But I dffer in opinion--I try to find spies based on what is said and done rather than trying to ferret oyt thoughts. Dunno, maybe thats why you got a spy and I haven't.
[20:50] spies8tina: How are you not sure. I know who my first and second picks are right now.
Smacks of badgering. Not good or bad, just distasteful. Not eberyone plays the same way.
And a quote about me:
spies8tina 9:50 pm
He showed up earlier. He left to eat as I questioned him.
For the record, we talked for over an hour. I didn't like the way this made it sound like I weaseled out of talking to you.
Question--Was someone who'd already come across as a newbie using "hq" really a lynchable offense?
Summary-0I think she means well, and is probably a cit. But there's enough here that I would want to keep a close eye on her in the future.
ZEDEKIAH
Questions about no exile.
[20:16] spies8zedekiah: Anyone reckon it'd be a terrible idea to wait out the first day with a no exile if we can't find someone at least slightly suspicous?
I find it interesting that people were slamming others for similar statements, but no one seemed to call out Zed on it.
Then, there was the hq thing:
[22:15] spies8zedekiah: of course, the board is our headquarters
[21:48] spies8zedekiah: but if he's town he should read our own dang HQ
[21:49] spies8zedekiah: "Since I believe in givin' a person their say in the matter, I'm saying I'm voting for allan for now, though I'd plenty appreciate a chat if he has anythin' t' say."
[21:49] spies8zedekiah: I posted this in our republican HQ
He uses it repeatedly, and it always seems as though hes talking about the burg. Fairly obviously, even. I don't see this as an issue at all.
Question--Zed, why did you think no exile would be a good idea?
Summary-I thin cit, but spies are probably trying to set him up. Watch those who were pushing hum.
Final summary-
Stephanie seems scummy to me; compared with my previous suspicions of Jasmine (now less after her somewhat reasonable excuse regarding Chance's case) and the purely gut read on Brody, she will likely be my vote unless something changes.
Somewhat scummy - Isaac, Themba as a possible spy pair; Themba not so much on her own. Zed and Tina probably cits, though I want to watch Tina acloser.
DANE
First episode, did a lot of demanding to know who people were voting.
[12:39] spies8dane: as of right now
[12:39] spies8dane: alexei, who are you voting
[12:39] spies8dane: gabriel, who are you voting
[12:39] spies8dane: jenny who are you voting you beautiful woman you
[12:39] spies8dane: and nita who are you voting
[16:21] spies8dane: jenny
[16:21] spies8dane: who is your temporary vote on, that you posted in your confessional
[16:22] spies8jenny: Oh, I put it on Zeddy for the time being.
[16:22] spies8dane: alright
[16:23] spies8Nita: Tina y yo are postin a case on Alexei
[16:23] spies8Nita: I put my parts up
[16:23] spies8dane: who is your biggest suspect after that?
He did seem a little over defensive when targeted by Stephanie and Alexei. However, was bein pushed by Alexei.
[04:13] spies8dane: I think at this point, the role sounds spyish, he was already extra suspicious from episode 1, and if he was a cit role, he wouldn't have "staked his life" on someone being a spy (and then get it wrong)
Not scummy, just noting something I disagree with. Later seems to change his mind. Sort of, anyway
spies8dane 12:20 pm
(12:20:00 PM): her point was that why would sam give such an overpowered spy role?
(12:20:08 PM): and I kinda agree
spies8dane 12:20 pm
(12:20:13 PM): but from the description of the role
spies8dane 12:20 pm
(12:20:17 PM): it is so utterly scummy
Question--Why were you pushing for votes so early, Dane? It seems like spy wanting to know which direction things are moving.
Summary--pushy, but targeted by a spy. Thinking cit right now.
ISAAC
spies8isaac (11:46:35 PM): Haven't talked to Themba much at all either. Always coming or going when I log in and then there is the one who's gone till Saturday, so ya definitly need to hit chat up when a few others are here. Have no reading on them yet what so ever
Themba was republican at this time; Isaac democrat. spy slip or mistake?
Response from Isaac on this from private chat:
spies8lawrence 9:39 pm
(9:39:49 PM): Hey. Heads up on the post I'm collating right now. Can you explain this quote after parties were assigned? Sounds like a spyslip to me...spies8isaac (11:46:35 PM): Haven't talked to Themba much at all either. Always coming or going when I log in and then there is the one who's gone till Saturday, so ya definitly need to hit chat up when a few others are here. Have no reading on them yet what so ever
spies8isaac 9:42 pm
(9:42:05 PM): I don't remember saying that at all after parties were aligned. Sounds like it was early though as I apparently hadn't met many peeps
spies8lawrence 9:44 pm
(9:44:39 PM): It was early, yes. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn its a mistake-but it also wouldn't surprise me to learn its a spyslip.
spies8isaac 9:46 pm
(9:46:07 PM): Well it was just a mistake to be sure since I didn't even know the person's name who was gone till saturday....lol. I got better though with names after like the second day, but ya, was terrible remembering everyone
spies8lawrence 9:47 pm
(9:47:02 PM): Ok. Do you mimd if I copy this discussion into the post when I make it?
spies8isaac 9:48 pm
(9:48:07 PM): Knock yourself out, as I said I have nothing to hide and it was just a mistake on my part. I was just terrible with names until about halfway through day two when I finally met everyone on our team...lol
spies8isaac (3:25:18 PM): I have several problems with claude all of which I've made pulic. But I'll quickly list them all here.
spies8isaac (3:26:25 PM): 1) I find it odd he role claimed day 2. The way he claimed and stated it as well means nothing alignment wise to us so it's no real help.
spies8isaac (3:27:32 PM): 20 the certainty in which he believed people to be spies day one. I noticed after Cam disappeared he didn't really mention the whole "lynch me if she's town tomorrow" argument ever again in any great detail....odd
spies8isaac (3:28:18 PM): 3) What the heck is his problem with chance. Those two are going at it like a cat and dog and making no headway.
spies8isaac (3:28:51 PM): 4) using facts from what others have heard to base your thinking on without verifying it youself seems odd
That was his case on Claude. I can't say as I disagree with any of his points, but I don't think it would be enough to move on myself.
Question-Do you think its better to be certain and wrong, like Claude, or tentative/hesitant and willing to move around? Loaded question, I know, but since that was one of your points against him, it matters.
Summary-That's pretty much the book on Isaac as far as I can tell. He does seem to be focused on Jasmine at the moment, and her on him. Likely not spies together, unless they're trying to distance themselves. Which is more likely? I'm on the fence about this one, but leaning more spy.
STEPHANIE
She stood up for Zed early on. Whether this matters or not is yet to be seen.
[00:19] spies8stephanie: i am inclined to think that he is a cit who panicked
[00:19] spies8stephanie: and didn't read the question about LAST night
She worked with Alexei to push a case on Dane. But afterwards, seemed to try to separate herself from the spy.
spies8Stephanie: most of it caused by alex
spies8Stephanie: yes, jenny and i watched Z prove that alex was a spy, last night
spies8Themba: i will second that.
spies8Stephanie: it was fun
spies8Stephanie: i agreed that alex looked suspicious
spies8Tina: Although you never really considered voting Alexei though just to be sure.
spies8Stephanie: i was not here on sunday, or i would have
spies8Stephanie: when alex changed his vote to me
spies8Stephanie: and then i probably would have changed my vote to z when he made the hq remark
Tries also to make people look for a busser on the Alexei wagon. Maybe a good idea, maybe not. But combined with above, feels like classicx misdirection to me.
spies8Stephanie: i think it was clear that the majority of people were voting alex
spies8Stephanie: and that it was a clear bussing situation
spies8Stephanie: and i think there has to be spies on the alex vote
spies8Owen: I never felt it was completely certain Alexei would go, especially when votes started to change.
spies8Stephanie: and i wasn't around on sunday, so i don't know, but on saturday, it was looking pretty clear to me that alex was going
spies8Stephanie: well, as i started to say, i am looking at who among the alex voters look like spies to me
spies8Stephanie: and my top candidates are owen and rondak
spies8Stephanie: and i think that the spies were on the alex wagon
spies8Stephanie: it looks overwhelming
spies8Stephanie: if i were a spy, i would have voted alex
spies8Tina: *twitch*
spies8Nita: That ain't logic Stephanie
spies8Stephanie: ?
spies8Stephanie: i think the spies thought that they couldn't save him and so jumped on the wagon
Then, backs way off both of the other day 1 cases.
spies8Stephanie: my thoughts are that dane and Z were cleared by alex
spies8Tina: It was funny.
spies8Stephanie: i think dane is a clueless ass who should try to keep up with what's going on
spies8Owen entered the room.
spies8Stephanie: and z is just clueless, but at least mostly well-intentioned
Question-Why were you so gung ho about trying to find a busser? It seems to me that limits your field of candidates-something I've been accused of doinmg.
Summary-I don't like the feel of the separation/bushunting. Feels like spy to me.
THEMBA
I hunted around, but only found a couple things that really jumped out at me. First, she seems to post as a spy a little too often for my comfort.
[23:18] spies8themba: nonono. bussing a bad spy is a good thing.
[23:19] spies8rondak: What?
[23:19] spies8themba: i'd get rid of him too.
[23:19] spies8themba: he was bad at being a spy.
[23:19] spies8savannah: yes it seems reasonable
[23:19] spies8rondak: Alright, then, my mistake.
[23:19] spies8savannah: thats why you cant assume that just because he was a spy his buddies wouldnt vote for him
[23:20] spies8gabriel: spies are going to cut loose the dangers to their side early
[23:20] spies8themba: correct
[23:20] spies8themba: and, god bless him, he was a danger.
[23:42] spies8themba: Did you know you're the popular choice for Imprisonment hun?
[23:42] spies8Nita: You talkin bout it with the spies?
[23:42] spies8themba: Yep
Yeah, the second can easily be passed off as a joke. But it seems to happen somewhat often. Maybe a spy hiding in plain sight?
This is countered by this:
[20:45] spies8themba: i thought there were 6 spies?
Simple, direct, and wrong. And wouldn't a spy know how many there were?
Question-What makes you say Alexei was a danger? Can you point to anything in the burg? Thaat, more than anythinh else you've said, seems scummy.
Summary-I think cit for now. But, if Isaac proves to be spy, I would want to take a closer look just to be sure.'
TINA
She hit me on going with status quo, and why I'm not looking elsewhere. So, I'll start with her.
[18:56] spies8tina: Inquiring minds wish to know.
[19:05] spies8tina: Ok. So if you had to vote someone right now who would it be?
Wow, do those two quotes seem to sum Tina up.
An early attempt to draw people out:
[21:23] spies8tina: Ok, one second. Lets force an opinion or two for the neutral observers.
[21:23] spies8tina: Alexei, what is your thought on all this?
[19:09] spies8tina: Hello to you as well. Who are you voting?
spies8tina 6:02 pm
Why not force discussion if there is not much to discuss.
Her comments while people were pushing Zed.
Regarding Zed:
[00:08] spies8tina: I personally still do not think its a good enough thing to exile on.
[00:09] spies8tina: It seems to mainly center around not knowing enough about AIM.
[19:56] spies8tina: He is thinking for himself. It is a good thing.
[19:57] spies8tina: In his position, it is a strong citizen tell I would expect.
[22:46] spies8tina: Ok. I am changing my vote to Zek. That HQ thing is horrible, he gave a slightly different reason to Gabe than me, and he is not doing any sort of spy hunting. I just think this is the better move. Alexei is showing some signs of trying to hunt spies, is more interested in the good of the group then the good of himself. Yes it is last minute but I think it is the right move.
She starts out saying its not strong enough, but apparently him saying hq instead of burg is enough toi get her to switch. Oh, and then she gets a cheap shot in.
[23:36] spies8tina: Zek does not count. Person involves some form of intelegence.
[00:12] spies8tina: Much more interested in a move against someone like alexei.
[00:12] spies8tina: Mayyyyybe savannah.
The first two exiled were Alexei and Savannah. Weird. Driving force?
[20:01] spies8tina: They both seemed like they would vote him last I spoke with them. Just trying to keep tabs on as many peoples thought process as possible.
[20:02] spies8tina: I feel that if you can learn how someone thinks, you can much easier figure out when they are trying to think wrong.
You explain yourself here, somewhat. But I dffer in opinion--I try to find spies based on what is said and done rather than trying to ferret oyt thoughts. Dunno, maybe thats why you got a spy and I haven't.
[20:50] spies8tina: How are you not sure. I know who my first and second picks are right now.
Smacks of badgering. Not good or bad, just distasteful. Not eberyone plays the same way.
And a quote about me:
spies8tina 9:50 pm
He showed up earlier. He left to eat as I questioned him.
For the record, we talked for over an hour. I didn't like the way this made it sound like I weaseled out of talking to you.
Question--Was someone who'd already come across as a newbie using "hq" really a lynchable offense?
Summary-0I think she means well, and is probably a cit. But there's enough here that I would want to keep a close eye on her in the future.
ZEDEKIAH
Questions about no exile.
[20:16] spies8zedekiah: Anyone reckon it'd be a terrible idea to wait out the first day with a no exile if we can't find someone at least slightly suspicous?
I find it interesting that people were slamming others for similar statements, but no one seemed to call out Zed on it.
Then, there was the hq thing:
[22:15] spies8zedekiah: of course, the board is our headquarters
[21:48] spies8zedekiah: but if he's town he should read our own dang HQ
[21:49] spies8zedekiah: "Since I believe in givin' a person their say in the matter, I'm saying I'm voting for allan for now, though I'd plenty appreciate a chat if he has anythin' t' say."
[21:49] spies8zedekiah: I posted this in our republican HQ
He uses it repeatedly, and it always seems as though hes talking about the burg. Fairly obviously, even. I don't see this as an issue at all.
Question--Zed, why did you think no exile would be a good idea?
Summary-I thin cit, but spies are probably trying to set him up. Watch those who were pushing hum.
Final summary-
Stephanie seems scummy to me; compared with my previous suspicions of Jasmine (now less after her somewhat reasonable excuse regarding Chance's case) and the purely gut read on Brody, she will likely be my vote unless something changes.
Somewhat scummy - Isaac, Themba as a possible spy pair; Themba not so much on her own. Zed and Tina probably cits, though I want to watch Tina acloser.
