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Post by Awohali on Jun 21, 2010 23:25:51 GMT -6
Good evening from the Burg, and welcome to the Count Down! I am your host, Awohali, and today I will be asking residents of the Burg questions from the events of the last episode. I will wrap up this program by listing the Worst People in the World. BroderickI believe at one point on the day of voting, you stated that there was something that made you almost not want to vote Chance anymore. I can not find this quote, though I have tried. Am I right in thinking this? If so, what almost made you not vote for him, again, and what prompted you to ultimately vote for him despite this thing? ChanceYou are aware of my reasons for voting and suspecting you. What plans do you have, if any, to prevent yourself from accidentally spreading misinformation in the future? Have you given this any thought at all, and if so, what are these thoughts? CinnamynYou voted Margot by yourself, stating that when you asked her questions, she "didnt answer real well lmbo". Would you mind ecplaining what these questions were and what was bad about her answers? ClaudeYou have a different philosophy regarding how Mafia should be played. You don't believe in emotion and work off of what things should be, not necessarily what they are. Would you mind explaining this philosophy for everyone? CoryAfter pushing a Margot vote most of this episode, you abruptly shifted over to voting Camilla. You said that it was because she was making claims about you despite having never talked to you, yet you had surely seen this quote prior to deciding to change your vote. Why did you change it when you did? GertrudeYou voted for Camilla because her "posts made your stomach churn", yet I do not believe you ever explained which posts or what it was about them that bothered you. Also, you said something that bothered me yesterday. I mentioned that it bothered me, but I would like to do so again: spies8gertrude (8:18:01 PM):I actually agree with this statement: spies8gertrude (8:18:03 PM):spies8cory (3:31:19 PM): I find Camilla's comment on me to be very bizarre. spies8cory (3:31:23 PM): So bandwagony spies8gertrude (8:18:39 PM):But I didn't want to say so yesterday because Claude was the only one saying things about Camilla and I didn't really want to be associated with the biggest target. spies8gertrude (8:19:04 PM):Most of the things she says, though, are wagony. Would you mind explaining why you are worried about being associated with vote targets? IsaacYou were on Claude early. One of the reasons you cited was: "First off there is the certainty in which he’s claimed to think several people are spies: spies8claude 3:24 pm I think Tina and Cory are both spies, yes." When you cited this, were you aware that Chance had said that Cory and Tina talked to each other after teams were made, and did you investigate to ascertain whether or not Claude knew that this is false before casting your vote? JasmineYou voted for Chance citing that, "he'd switch from person to person semi fast". You then cited a post that Lawrence made. Did you personally observe Chance switching people, or did you hear of this via the posts? LawrenceYou made a very early vote on Claude and did not change it. I realize that you have been sick, but what efforts did you go through to ensure that Claude was a wise vote, and did anything happen from the time you psoted you would vote Claude and your last time online before the Exile that made you question your voting decision? LilithHi, I am Awohali. I would say "Nice to meet you" but that would be a lie, for I have not. MagalieYou posted that you suspected Gertude, citing, "I just have a feeling but I dont know how to put it in words." You then came online, and when asked on your feelings of Gertrude, you responded that "I dont have one really its just she would give me a hard time and I have not been here the whole week." Then, you said: spies8magalie (10:23:11 PM): well kinda sorta spies8magalie (10:23:43 PM): I have doubts but ehh shes just a dedicated cit That seems to contradict your statement that you have no feelings on her. It also seems odd that you would state that she is a "Dedicated cit" and then actually VOTE for her. Could you please explain to me how this is not insanity? MargotYou stated that you were voting for Camilla because: "A lot has been said and some evidence has been given, and I agree with it. She feels more suspicious to me at this point." I am sorry, I am still waiting for that reason. All I see above is a statement that says and means absolutely nothing. MaryYou are a Spy. Please tell me why the above statement is false. And now, my top suspects, the Worst People in the World:    |
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Post by Broderick on Jun 22, 2010 0:15:33 GMT -6
Im not sure. I was thinking I was going to vote for Chance last night. I just caught up on The Burg posts. Looks like others are suspicious of Chance. Jasmine's vote looks bandwagony.
Yes I did. That is the relevant quote.
Claude and Chance had been in the limelight for almost the entire episode. Cory quite a bit towards the beginning and Camilla towards the end. It appeared to me that quite a few people had decided their suspicions and vote based upon those in the limelight. Which appeared to me to be hopping upon the opinions of others. I decided to stick with my suspect rather than divert because that same day Chance tried to, in my opinion - shop his Claude suspicion to me. He came to me wanting to know if I was interested in hearing two additional things which he had against Claude.
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Post by Magalie on Jun 22, 2010 0:31:48 GMT -6
Okay man since this little piece of shit will never be let go I might as well just say that seeing as people keep givin me much of a hard time of my little post I thought it would be nice if I could just say hey shes a cit so yall can leave me the fuck alone and stop callin me stupid. All I ment was that I am here because I didnt have time to keep in touch with all of you. I voted her because I truely think shes a spy for the fact one night when discussin chance and brodrick she said somthin about not votin them now because they were good asset and Im like what good is a spy. I at the time did not have the time to post the conversation because I did not have the time to post it. I kept my vote thinkin I would not be here in time for sunday because of the plans I had. Not knowin it will open up a can of wtf whoop ass. I am not a spy tho and you can count on that if thats what your thinkin.
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Post by Claude on Jun 22, 2010 0:47:59 GMT -6
I don't see what there is to explain. Emotion is not an effective tool for the town. The town wins by logical analysis. When you get emotional, your judgment only becomes clouded, making it more difficult for you to express yourself.
Case in point: If Camilla had logically defended herself against me, instead of resorting to a bunch of bad emotional attacks, she might have made me believe that she was not a Spy.
Also, Margot is far scummier than Gertrude, just based on her 'super late try to force a 3 way tie' vote on Camilla.
And Jasmine pretty much can't be a Spy. This will make more sense if I get called on my 'Exile me if Camilla is a Citizen' stance, but if Jasmine were a Spy, there is no way she would have placed her very-late vote on Chance yesterday. It would have been either myself or Camilla(since either of those lynches happening is a heap of trouble for the other person).
In my estimation..
Citizens(in order of strength of my opinion toward them):
Broderick
Cory(yeah yeah I know)
Jasmine
Awohlia
Cinnamyn
Mary
Unsure:
Gertrude
Isaac
Lawrence
Lilith
Magalie
Spies:
Chance
Margot
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Cory
Cory
Hot Because He's Fly
Posts: 127
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Post by Cory on Jun 22, 2010 0:52:55 GMT -6
I walked into the chat in the middle of the feud. I asked once or twice for clarification on just what the hell was going on, but to no avail. I read the transcript later that night, which is why I asked her for clarification. I placed my vote on her the following day after a lack of response. I would argue that I hadn't been pushing Margot all episode. She merely stood out as someone who was around but not doing much, and I even noted that it was a tentative vote of sorts. |
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Post by Mary on Jun 22, 2010 2:56:30 GMT -6
MaryYou are a Spy. Please tell me why the above statement is false. Because you left out the word "not", Mister Eagle. |
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Post by Isaac on Jun 22, 2010 4:03:48 GMT -6
Well in a way it's kind of a valid question but mostly it isn't. In all honesty, you just kind of reconfirmed one of the reasons I voted for him anyway.
First off, that was only half of that one particular reason I voted him...I find it odd you didn't use the other half, but whatever. Secondly, No where in that reason was I trying to ascertain whether or not claude had verified it. My point simply is that he seemed rather certain and had no problems stating and feeling strongly that so many people were in fact spies. Regardless of who he heard that info from, it should be him that verifies as he is the one who made the statement. Also, it goes back the the whole (person A, told me they heard that person C said this) which is what caused so much confussion day 1. I would be more then willing to clear anything else up with you, but as for verifying claudes facts for the statements he made was never used in my voting reasons for that example I find the point moot.
But, you bring up a valid question and now I am curious as to whether or not claude did in fact try to verify this right away or not. I will have to remember to bring it up in a group chat with him. So, thank you for that!
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Post by Cinnamyn on Jun 22, 2010 11:09:02 GMT -6
yea bu heres wut me n' margot talked bout.
spies8margot: (7:42:31 PM)no, i do not agree with claude's case that cory is a spy
spies8margot: (7:42:38 PM)i talked with this briefly with mary
spies8margot: (7:42:53 PM)and that perhaps it was a way for claude to pick an "easy target" for the first exile
spies8margot: (7:42:59 PM)a scapegoat if you will
i dont undastand her reazoning 4 cory bein' a scapegoat if it wuz obvious dat da case on cory wuz bunk. az far as i no, no1 wuz goin' 4 da case on cory. y wud a spy go n' b da furst 1 to put they neck on tha line wit' a case dat didnt hold hardlee n e water.?
spies8margot: (7:46:47 PM)i wish i could contribute more and discuss who i think is which role, but i just don't know at this point. i'm the kind of person that wants to attain the evidence and then make sure that it is in fact correct
dis didnt make n e cents 2 me. i c where shes comin' frum, but dis wuz only 1 day b4 exile. she sez she wants 2 attain da evidence, but i neva saw her attainin' n e sort of evidence. n' then make sure it iz in fact correkt..i neva saw her do dat eitha.
spies8margot: (7:48:49 PM)i would have to talk with more people to try to figure out who seems "spy-ish", but i am hesitant about mary
spies8cinnamyn: (7:49:06 PM)aight y iz dat.?
spies8margot: (7:49:46 PM)it's just a little gut feeling that i have. i don't know, i can't really explain it from when i chatted with her last night before the storm took away our power
she again haz 2 talk 2 more ppl..but wen.? wenever she wuz online she wuz never doin' n e sort of spyhuntin' n wuz just kinda hangin' out. she haz a gut feelin' bout mary but cant explain it. so wut am i supposed 2 do wit' dat.?
spies8margot: (7:53:20 PM)i mean, right now my vote would be for claude based on that first group chat we had
spies8margot: (7:53:47 PM)but it's still up in the air for right now if i talk with more people, you know?
wen did she talk wit' more ppl.? she didnt wit' me, i dont no if she did wit' da otherz, but after she switched her vote frum claude 2 camilla dat seemz a bit shady bcuz im pritty sure camilla didnt sign on 2 talk wit' her, so she must have voted 4 camilla bcuz sum1 else presented a gud enuf argument, but 2 me she sed she needed 2 talk 2 ppl b4 she made a decishun. i wud think she wud want 2 talk 2 camilla if she wuz gunna vote 4 her.
wut i wuz lukin' 4 frum margot wuz a definitive stance, i wanted her 2 name her suspectz, give me sum reazins y (i mean even jus' a few) and make me feel lyke she wuznt just wishywashy n' tryin' 2 jus' get past da round, but i got nothin'. frum the lil' tyme we talked i got da same vagueness dat wuz in da chat. n' 3 dayz into da furst round i dont see how dat can b possible.
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Post by Margot on Jun 22, 2010 11:25:18 GMT -6
I've said before that my vote for the first Exile was still up in the air, and the reason I changed my vote to Camilla was not only for the argument given, but also for the fact that Claude has contributed a lot more to investigating who the spies are than she has done. That being said, that contribution will clearly be negative if you all are pointing the spy finger at me. Yes, I bandwagoned my vote to Camilla because I never talked with her. I didn't like what she was reported to have said about it being okay to get rid of a citizen because they weren't a contributor, even if that reflected poorly on me and made me a target. That's my explanation for my vote for Camilla, and now that it was revealed that she was a citizen, then that makes me question other people far more.
Gertrude's vote was exactly the same reason that I did. She initially switched her vote and gave this explanation: "I agree with the things that were said about her more than I suspect Margot."
That is pretty much my same exact argument for voting for Camilla, except for whole suspecting Margot part. That seems far more suspicious to me, and yet I'm the one that's is being pegged the most for being a spy? I'm "scummier" than her?
Gertrude is at the top of my list as a suspect. She's far more likely a spy than I am, which is large gap really, since I am not a spy. Claude will also be at the top of my list for trying to be "logical", and yet believing I'm a spy. Is this suspicion logical? Maybe. Is this suspicion emotional? Abso-fucking-lutely.
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Post by Chance on Jun 22, 2010 13:33:17 GMT -6
yeah, pretty much. where i come from people know each other pretty well, and i guess the total anonymity of a spies game didn't really click into my head until people started accusing me of spreading information when i just used a different word for an attitude i believed i saw, because it's what i tend to do. it'll be tough, but i'll try to not do so in the future.
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Post by Jasmine on Jun 22, 2010 15:55:27 GMT -6
Yes. I did personally observe most of the times he did swap around. A lot of the initial chats we had as a group, I was apart of. If not all but like one. And in those chats, Chance swapped around his suspects quite a bit. To the point where many began to be suspect and were asking him a ton of questions.
I didn't read anything but some of the first post. I'm really busy, but I should be able to get all caught up and maybe get online tonight!
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Post by Chance on Jun 22, 2010 16:06:55 GMT -6
please point out where i did so. i'm pretty sure i haven't swapped off claude for a long time. edit - after going through all the archives i have of the spies8democrats chatroom, the only thing i can think of where me 'swapping around my suspects' actually applies is back when i thought tina and cory were suspicious in addition to claude, based on the mistaken case i brought up. when i found out i was wrong, i retracted my suspicion of those two, yes. but otherwise i haven't. so for you to say i have is false information.  |
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Post by Broderick on Jun 22, 2010 16:44:11 GMT -6
I was under the impression that you told a few peoplethat you were suspicious of myself, based solely on your assumption that my one postwas acase againstboth yourself and Claude.
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Gertrude
Gertrude
Jail changes an angel.
Posts: 117
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Post by Gertrude on Jun 22, 2010 16:48:52 GMT -6
Hey there, Awohali! I'd love to respond to your questions, thanks! In response to which post(s) of Camilla's bothered me, spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=dems&thread=314&page=1#1137This. It just seemed to me like she was agreeing with everything Cinnamyn had already stated in an odd, supportive way. I admit, part of it may be OMGUS, since she reiterated what Cinnamyn had said about me, despite (and after) my response and Cin's "i lyk ur responsh" to me. But, throughout the post, she says things like, "*This kinda seemed weird to me too:," and, "I felt that this was also out of place." That is what I found initially suspicious about Camilla, and I think I specifically expressed that to Mary at one point. I don't think she found it to be a legitimate suspicion, but I still kept it in mind. As to your second bit, I do believe I answered that in the group chat, but I will do so again. I know I've said this before, and I will most likely have to say this again, but this is my first experience with forum Mafia. I'm used to Survivor. In Survivor, if you side with the person who's being voted out, you're voted out next. It's basically common knowledge. So, I felt like if I publicly agreed with Claude, and he "flipped" Spy, I would be Exiled the next round for being in association with him. I believe I said that I would work on making all of my thoughts known to everybody so nothing I say or do comes out of the blue, and I mean that. Also, I realize the quote is from Cory. What I mean by agreeing with Claude is that he found Camilla suspicious, as did I. I hope this helps, let me know if you'd like anything more, and I'm sorry for the delay. As I said, I was out of town. |
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Post by Chance on Jun 22, 2010 16:50:30 GMT -6
I was under the impression that you told a few peoplethat you were suspicious of myself, based solely on your assumption that my one postwas acase againstboth yourself and Claude. yes, i did. i said i was 'mildly' suspicious of you, because i thought a lot of your questions were reachy and fragile. i don't really think that qualifies as 'swapping my suspects around'. |
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Lawrence
Lawrence
Larry Wonder!
Posts: 9
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Post by Lawrence on Jun 22, 2010 16:51:03 GMT -6
I, when I managed to get on, was constantly re-evaluating. His cases, at least to me, sounded more of scum trying to get every one to go in another direction, particularly the Camilla case.
Unfortunately for me, it seems that much of what happened to send Camilla out wasn't postted, and I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight to tell me that she was a cit; so I cannot say with certainty one way or the other if my vote would have changed. As before, Claude is fairly convincing about others, but I have to tale that carefully if I believe him to be a higher potential spy.
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Gertrude
Gertrude
Jail changes an angel.
Posts: 117
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Post by Gertrude on Jun 22, 2010 16:53:17 GMT -6
I forgot to mention this.
Another reason I switched my vote was because, to me, it's useless to vote for someone who has no chance of being Exiled. Why would I waste my vote on Margot if Claude, Chance, or Camilla were clearly the people in danger of being Exiled. I'd rather have my opinion matter than a Spy's, so I picked one of the three. I picked the person who I felt both was scummiest and also least helpful in terms of hunting.
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Post by Broderick on Jun 22, 2010 17:48:27 GMT -6
I thought you suspected Camilla before it was cool to suspect her?
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Gertrude
Gertrude
Jail changes an angel.
Posts: 117
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Post by Gertrude on Jun 22, 2010 17:57:20 GMT -6
I did. But I've already said this. I believe it came after Awohali's messages in the chat.
If someone has the chat posted somewhere, I'd appreciate it if they brought that clip.
I wasn't aware that I should reiterate things so much.
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Post by Awohali on Jun 23, 2010 20:49:15 GMT -6
Im not sure. I was thinking I was going to vote for Chance last night. I just caught up on The Burg posts. Looks like others are suspicious of Chance. Jasmine's vote looks bandwagony. Yes I did. That is the relevant quote. Claude and Chance had been in the limelight for almost the entire episode. Cory quite a bit towards the beginning and Camilla towards the end. It appeared to me that quite a few people had decided their suspicions and vote based upon those in the limelight. Which appeared to me to be hopping upon the opinions of others. I decided to stick with my suspect rather than divert because that same day Chance tried to, in my opinion - shop his Claude suspicion to me. He came to me wanting to know if I was interested in hearing two additional things which he had against Claude. I thank you for the quote, Broderick. That is what I was talking about. I know what you mean about this final day, for the same thing happened to me, and helped me determine my vote as well. I believe we are in understanding here. I apologize, but I have no earthly idea what you just said. If I am understanding correctly, you: 1. Posted that you suspected Gertrude to let people know you are alive. 2.In the chat stated that Gertrude was probably a Cit so that people would leave you alone. 3. Proceded to vote for Gertrude because you truly think she is a Spy. I don't see what there is to explain. Emotion is not an effective tool for the town. The town wins by logical analysis. When you get emotional, your judgment only becomes clouded, making it more difficult for you to express yourself. Case in point: If Camilla had logically defended herself against me, instead of resorting to a bunch of bad emotional attacks, she might have made me believe that she was not a Spy. I thank you for your answer, Claude. I merely wished to create a place where your viewpoint would be archived for people who may inquire about it in the future, as I think in your specific case, your views on how the game is played will be important in assessing your suspiciousness. I walked into the chat in the middle of the feud. I asked once or twice for clarification on just what the hell was going on, but to no avail. I read the transcript later that night, which is why I asked her for clarification. I placed my vote on her the following day after a lack of response. I would argue that I hadn't been pushing Margot all episode. She merely stood out as someone who was around but not doing much, and I even noted that it was a tentative vote of sorts. Thank you or your response, Cory. I believe this is an understandable situation. You are a Spy. Please tell me why the above statement is false. Because you left out the word "not", Mister Eagle.[/quote] Well played, Madam. Well played. Well in a way it's kind of a valid question but mostly it isn't. In all honesty, you just kind of reconfirmed one of the reasons I voted for him anyway. First off, that was only half of that one particular reason I voted him...I find it odd you didn't use the other half, but whatever. Secondly, No where in that reason was I trying to ascertain whether or not claude had verified it. My point simply is that he seemed rather certain and had no problems stating and feeling strongly that so many people were in fact spies. Regardless of who he heard that info from, it should be him that verifies as he is the one who made the statement. Also, it goes back the the whole (person A, told me they heard that person C said this) which is what caused so much confussion day 1. I would be more then willing to clear anything else up with you, but as for verifying claudes facts for the statements he made was never used in my voting reasons for that example I find the point moot. But, you bring up a valid question and now I am curious as to whether or not claude did in fact try to verify this right away or not. I will have to remember to bring it up in a group chat with him. So, thank you for that! Thank you for your response, Isaac. I felt that this was the half that required more explanation. Your second reasoning was mostly concerning statements Claude made that were attributable to his personality rather than alignment, so I did not wish to include that as part of the question. I agree with your stance that he should have verified it himself, although from my understanding, Chance 'verified' it for him. It was a messy situation all the way around. yea bu heres wut me n' margot talked bout.spies8margot: (7:42:31 PM)no, i do not agree with claude's case that cory is a spy spies8margot: (7:42:38 PM)i talked with this briefly with mary spies8margot: (7:42:53 PM)and that perhaps it was a way for claude to pick an "easy target" for the first exile spies8margot: (7:42:59 PM)a scapegoat if you will
i dont undastand her reazoning 4 cory bein' a scapegoat if it wuz obvious dat da case on cory wuz bunk. az far as i no, no1 wuz goin' 4 da case on cory. y wud a spy go n' b da furst 1 to put they neck on tha line wit' a case dat didnt hold hardlee n e water.?spies8margot: (7:46:47 PM)i wish i could contribute more and discuss who i think is which role, but i just don't know at this point. i'm the kind of person that wants to attain the evidence and then make sure that it is in fact correct dis didnt make n e cents 2 me. i c where shes comin' frum, but dis wuz only 1 day b4 exile. she sez she wants 2 attain da evidence, but i neva saw her attainin' n e sort of evidence. n' then make sure it iz in fact correkt..i neva saw her do dat eitha.spies8margot: (7:48:49 PM)i would have to talk with more people to try to figure out who seems "spy-ish", but i am hesitant about mary spies8cinnamyn: (7:49:06 PM)aight y iz dat.? spies8margot: (7:49:46 PM)it's just a little gut feeling that i have. i don't know, i can't really explain it from when i chatted with her last night before the storm took away our power she again haz 2 talk 2 more ppl..but wen.? wenever she wuz online she wuz never doin' n e sort of spyhuntin' n wuz just kinda hangin' out. she haz a gut feelin' bout mary but cant explain it. so wut am i supposed 2 do wit' dat.?spies8margot: (7:53:20 PM)i mean, right now my vote would be for claude based on that first group chat we had spies8margot: (7:53:47 PM)but it's still up in the air for right now if i talk with more people, you know? wen did she talk wit' more ppl.? she didnt wit' me, i dont no if she did wit' da otherz, but after she switched her vote frum claude 2 camilla dat seemz a bit shady bcuz im pritty sure camilla didnt sign on 2 talk wit' her, so she must have voted 4 camilla bcuz sum1 else presented a gud enuf argument, but 2 me she sed she needed 2 talk 2 ppl b4 she made a decishun. i wud think she wud want 2 talk 2 camilla if she wuz gunna vote 4 her.
wut i wuz lukin' 4 frum margot wuz a definitive stance, i wanted her 2 name her suspectz, give me sum reazins y (i mean even jus' a few) and make me feel lyke she wuznt just wishywashy n' tryin' 2 jus' get past da round, but i got nothin'. frum the lil' tyme we talked i got da same vagueness dat wuz in da chat. n' 3 dayz into da furst round i dont see how dat can b possible. Thank you for your response, Cinnamyn, I believe you ahve made a powerful observation here, which is a trend of Margot stating that she needed to talk with more people and Spy hunt more, and that while she was online, she would not do so. I believe you have made a clear and valid point here. I've said before that my vote for the first Exile was still up in the air, and the reason I changed my vote to Camilla was not only for the argument given, but also for the fact that Claude has contributed a lot more to investigating who the spies are than she has done. That being said, that contribution will clearly be negative if you all are pointing the spy finger at me. Yes, I bandwagoned my vote to Camilla because I never talked with her. I didn't like what she was reported to have said about it being okay to get rid of a citizen because they weren't a contributor, even if that reflected poorly on me and made me a target. That's my explanation for my vote for Camilla, and now that it was revealed that she was a citizen, then that makes me question other people far more. Gertrude's vote was exactly the same reason that I did. She initially switched her vote and gave this explanation: "I agree with the things that were said about her more than I suspect Margot." That is pretty much my same exact argument for voting for Camilla, except for whole suspecting Margot part. That seems far more suspicious to me, and yet I'm the one that's is being pegged the most for being a spy? I'm "scummier" than her? Gertrude is at the top of my list as a suspect. She's far more likely a spy than I am, which is large gap really, since I am not a spy. Claude will also be at the top of my list for trying to be "logical", and yet believing I'm a spy. Is this suspicion logical? Maybe. Is this suspicion emotional? Abso-fucking-lutely. I thank you for the well-though-out response, Margot. I believe you have cleared much up, but I have bolded three clauses that I would like further clarification on. 1. Are you saying that Claude's contribution is negative because it makes people point the finger at you? I am unclear with this one. 2. Could you explain why what Gertrude did is far more suspicious than you, when you have said that it is essentially the same thing? (And to clarify, no, I did not peg you as more scummy than her in the original post) 3. Again, could you explain why, in my eyes, Gertrude should be "far more likely a spy" than you? yeah, pretty much. where i come from people know each other pretty well, and i guess the total anonymity of a spies game didn't really click into my head until people started accusing me of spreading information when i just used a different word for an attitude i believed i saw, because it's what i tend to do. it'll be tough, but i'll try to not do so in the future. I can understand that it can be difficult making the initial adjustment to a new group of people. I am interested to see how you will go forth in the game, whether or not you will truly put forth the effort to give only verified information. I appreciate your effort, and look forward to seeing it in action. Yes. I did personally observe most of the times he did swap around. A lot of the initial chats we had as a group, I was apart of. If not all but like one. And in those chats, Chance swapped around his suspects quite a bit. To the point where many began to be suspect and were asking him a ton of questions. I didn't read anything but some of the first post. I'm really busy, but I should be able to get all caught up and maybe get online tonight! Thank you for your response, Jasmine! Could you perhaps give me examples of this switching? I am aware of some cases, but I would like to know which in particular you witnessed and used in your reasoning behind voting for him. Hey there, Awohali! I'd love to respond to your questions, thanks! In response to which post(s) of Camilla's bothered me, spies8.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=dems&thread=314&page=1#1137This. It just seemed to me like she was agreeing with everything Cinnamyn had already stated in an odd, supportive way. I admit, part of it may be OMGUS, since she reiterated what Cinnamyn had said about me, despite (and after) my response and Cin's "i lyk ur responsh" to me. But, throughout the post, she says things like, "*This kinda seemed weird to me too:," and, "I felt that this was also out of place." That is what I found initially suspicious about Camilla, and I think I specifically expressed that to Mary at one point. I don't think she found it to be a legitimate suspicion, but I still kept it in mind. As to your second bit, I do believe I answered that in the group chat, but I will do so again. I know I've said this before, and I will most likely have to say this again, but this is my first experience with forum Mafia. I'm used to Survivor. In Survivor, if you side with the person who's being voted out, you're voted out next. It's basically common knowledge. So, I felt like if I publicly agreed with Claude, and he "flipped" Spy, I would be Exiled the next round for being in association with him. I believe I said that I would work on making all of my thoughts known to everybody so nothing I say or do comes out of the blue, and I mean that. Also, I realize the quote is from Cory. What I mean by agreeing with Claude is that he found Camilla suspicious, as did I. I hope this helps, let me know if you'd like anything more, and I'm sorry for the delay. As I said, I was out of town. Thank you for your specified response, Gertrude. I believe you have cleared up the first question very well. I realized that the second question had been discussed previously, but I wished to give you a chance to give a lengthy, thought-out response, as any teacher of literature would love to do. I am glad that you are aware that your thoughts must be made known, and I believe you when you say that you will adjust to the mafia mindset rather than the Survivor mindset. I, when I managed to get on, was constantly re-evaluating. His cases, at least to me, sounded more of scum trying to get every one to go in another direction, particularly the Camilla case. Unfortunately for me, it seems that much of what happened to send Camilla out wasn't postted, and I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight to tell me that she was a cit; so I cannot say with certainty one way or the other if my vote would have changed. As before, Claude is fairly convincing about others, but I have to tale that carefully if I believe him to be a higher potential spy. Lawrence, I thank you for taking the time to respond. I understand your point on the case on Camilla not being as well-documented. This and the fact that Camilla was not round is why I did not consider voting her, as well. I believe you have cleared this question up. |
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Post by Magalie on Jun 23, 2010 21:22:03 GMT -6
I apologize, but I have no earthly idea what you just said. If I am understanding correctly, you: 1. Posted that you suspected Gertrude to let people know you are alive. 2.In the chat stated that Gertrude was probably a Cit so that people would leave you alone. 3. Proceded to vote for Gertrude because you truly think she is a Spy. Let me just take my time and give you a straight up answer. 1.I posted that Gertrude was was spy because of the time I talked to her before that. While askin her about Chance, who at the time was my vote anyway, She defended him by sayin that Its to early to vote him out. I was on my way out of the house and it was a fast ass bad move on my part. 2.I said that she was a cit because I had just said goodbye to my father and was in no condition to give an explanation to anyone for the fact that I had a head ache from last week. So I said she was a cit so that everyone could leave me alone. Thats another one of my bad moves because it just started up a whole new can of worms. 3. My vote stayed the same because I had already voted in my confessional. I was not about to change it because I already look like a dumb fuck the past few days and if I change it then it would look kinda bandwagonish and I focused all my energy on Gertrude that I didnt get to know my team until after the fact of exile #1 1. |
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Post by Awohali on Jun 24, 2010 12:19:10 GMT -6
I apologize, but I have no earthly idea what you just said. If I am understanding correctly, you: 1. Posted that you suspected Gertrude to let people know you are alive. 2.In the chat stated that Gertrude was probably a Cit so that people would leave you alone. 3. Proceded to vote for Gertrude because you truly think she is a Spy. Let me just take my time and give you a straight up answer. 1.I posted that Gertrude was was spy because of the time I talked to her before that. While askin her about Chance, who at the time was my vote anyway, She defended him by sayin that Its to early to vote him out. I was on my way out of the house and it was a fast ass bad move on my part. 2.I said that she was a cit because I had just said goodbye to my father and was in no condition to give an explanation to anyone for the fact that I had a head ache from last week. So I said she was a cit so that everyone could leave me alone. Thats another one of my bad moves because it just started up a whole new can of worms. 3. My vote stayed the same because I had already voted in my confessional. I was not about to change it because I already look like a dumb fuck the past few days and if I change it then it would look kinda bandwagonish and I focused all my energy on Gertrude that I didnt get to know my team until after the fact of exile #1 1. Thank you again for a quick answer, it appears that my assessment was not mistaken. |
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Post by Margot on Jun 24, 2010 14:37:19 GMT -6
I thank you for the well-though-out response, Margot. I believe you have cleared much up, but I have bolded three clauses that I would like further clarification on. 1. Are you saying that Claude's contribution is negative because it makes people point the finger at you? I am unclear with this one. 2. Could you explain why what Gertrude did is far more suspicious than you, when you have said that it is essentially the same thing? (And to clarify, no, I did not peg you as more scummy than her in the original post) 3. Again, could you explain why, in my eyes, Gertrude should be "far more likely a spy" than you? 01. I believe if someone's contribution is to constantly point the finger at someone, call them scum, and then wehn you go with who they suspected as a spy to turn out to be a citizen, then it is negative. Being a positive contributor is to bring up different ideas, and that is also something that Claude does. He's a mix of both, but personally, I think he's being a negative contributor because he's pointing the finger at me. I'm new to this game, clearly. Magalie figured that out, and to dog on me by calling me scum is negative because he's getting rid of a citizen, me. 02. Before Gertrude switched, the vote was Claude - 4, Camilla - 3, Chance - 2, and Me - 2, with her vote originally being me. I stated my case for voting for Camilla in that thread and later on when asked as a combination of activity and the evidence. I was suspicious of Camilla along with Claude given the situation that Claude presented, and given the choice between Claude and Camilla, I'd vote to keep Claude because I never talked with Camilla and while I was irked by his way of investigation, at least it was something. What makes Gertrude's switch suspicious was the fact that she first stated I admitted to being a lurker and invisible and yet I went back to being a lurker and invisible. She then switches her vote because she agrees more with what's been said about Camilla than suspecting me. It was obvious her vote to get rid of me wasn't going to work so she switched targets. Her vote to me wasn't one of being more suspicious of Camilla but rather trying to go with a majority. I voted for Camilla first and in the minority until she tied the vote at that point. That is the very definition of bandwagony and makes me far more suspicious of her, leading me to vote for her in this exile. 03. I'll be frank, I'm new to this kind of game. I can't be the person that just goes around questioning everyone and pointing the finger at them because that's not who I am, it's just not me. I told everyone that I was being a lurker and when you all started to get on my back and wishing me to be a "better contributor", then I have tried. I just have work and life that gets in the way of being online all the time, scrutinizing every little detail. Gertrude gives off the impression (at least to me), of someone that wants people to contribute and promote discussion, and yet makes a bandwagony vote and doesn't elaborate on her vote. I believe she is far more likely a spy and that is why I'm voting for her. |
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Post by Awohali on Jun 24, 2010 16:35:45 GMT -6
01. I believe if someone's contribution is to constantly point the finger at someone, call them scum, and then wehn you go with who they suspected as a spy to turn out to be a citizen, then it is negative. Being a positive contributor is to bring up different ideas, and that is also something that Claude does. He's a mix of both, but personally, I think he's being a negative contributor because he's pointing the finger at me. I'm new to this game, clearly. Magalie figured that out, and to dog on me by calling me scum is negative because he's getting rid of a citizen, me. 02. Before Gertrude switched, the vote was Claude - 4, Camilla - 3, Chance - 2, and Me - 2, with her vote originally being me. I stated my case for voting for Camilla in that thread and later on when asked as a combination of activity and the evidence. I was suspicious of Camilla along with Claude given the situation that Claude presented, and given the choice between Claude and Camilla, I'd vote to keep Claude because I never talked with Camilla and while I was irked by his way of investigation, at least it was something. What makes Gertrude's switch suspicious was the fact that she first stated I admitted to being a lurker and invisible and yet I went back to being a lurker and invisible. She then switches her vote because she agrees more with what's been said about Camilla than suspecting me. It was obvious her vote to get rid of me wasn't going to work so she switched targets. Her vote to me wasn't one of being more suspicious of Camilla but rather trying to go with a majority. I voted for Camilla first and in the minority until she tied the vote at that point. That is the very definition of bandwagony and makes me far more suspicious of her, leading me to vote for her in this exile. 03. I'll be frank, I'm new to this kind of game. I can't be the person that just goes around questioning everyone and pointing the finger at them because that's not who I am, it's just not me. I told everyone that I was being a lurker and when you all started to get on my back and wishing me to be a "better contributor", then I have tried. I just have work and life that gets in the way of being online all the time, scrutinizing every little detail. Gertrude gives off the impression (at least to me), of someone that wants people to contribute and promote discussion, and yet makes a bandwagony vote and doesn't elaborate on her vote. I believe she is far more likely a spy and that is why I'm voting for her. 1. I understand where you are coming from here, but unfortunately, the negative aspect comes from your knowledge of your alignment, whereas we have no such alignment, so we can not see Claude pointing a finger at you as negative for the sole reason that you're a Cit, for we do not know your alignment. 2. This is understandable, although I believe you should read Gertrude's response to my questions in this thread for a possible explanation. It seems that Getrude, like you, is new to this style of game, and has a more Survivor mentality when it comes to voting, which would explain wanting to go with a majority when in doubt. Gertrude could be lying about being new, sure, but this is not worth wasting time speculating over. 3. I will keep in mind your newness to the game. I think all we ask is that you try your best. If you are doing so, I, for one, will welcome your contributions, even if they are not as in depth or frequent as some of the others. |
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they don't think it be like it is, but it do.
