HoMeGrL gOt SuM qUeScHiNz.!

I think a lot of this boils down to exactly what Isaac said. Misquotes and misrepresenting/misinterpreting of quotes. i for one was getting quite frustrated dealing with 'I heard from x who heard from y, who really heard from n."

I would think that if you heard some thing from x about y and you found it suspicious, you would go to y about it and clarify.

One thing that perhaps I am still confused about. Is exactly what did Awohali say about No Exile voting. Cory clarified it a little, that he heard from Tina. If it was during the first night, and when i was there. Awohali was not advocating No Exile votes. He said that there would be the option of No Exile votes with teams. Whether or not Tina and Awohali discussed in private, I haven't seen Awohali on to ask.

spies8cory (11:53:32 PM): Basically Trina and I were talking last night
spies8cory (11:53:46 PM): She at one point brought up how Awohali suggested that no lynching would be a good tactice to exercise
-
spies8broderick (11:57:04 PM): So Tina and Awohali discussed this novote thing last night?
spies8cory (11:57:09 PM): No
spies8cory (11:57:11 PM): I think it was in the group chat
-

What he said while I was in there: Spies8Awohali (21:23:0):I am sure that as long as we are in teams, there will be a No Exile voting option.


I dont know about the rest of you, but i would prefer not having to talk to eight different people on a 'he said that she said that really he told her about him saying to him' kind of deal.

Whether these situations of misquoting are all innocent I think is definitely something to look at and keep an eye on. Purposeful misquoting and misinterpreting of events to aide the spin on your case is rather quite shady.

sure. in my experience it's really easy for a group of baddies to slide by under the cover of other people who were actually innocent, but weren't contributing, or were saying large amounts of nothing. yeah, i'll vote for someone if i think they're a spy, but if i don't see some decent chance of any one person being a spy, i have no problem with voting someone who's a) not playing or b) not participating or c) not hunting for spies or d) all of the above.

I was talking to Margot last night during all of this, and she did comment; about not saying much; to me;



spies8margot (10:40:34 PM): Finger of Shame: Cory and Claude
spies8jasmine (10:40:51 PM): mmhmm gurl
spies8margot (10:43:05 PM): i didn't say anything just because i didn't want them to try to point the finger at me for no reason if i said, "i don't think claude's suspicions have much merit since it's only day two people"
spies8margot (10:43:17 PM): i mean, it might be legit suspicions
spies8margot (10:43:31 PM): but what's the substance? just because claude is pointing the finger at him and how cory is reacting?



I think she was just kind of lost, as was I for a bit of it. Still getting use to everything. Have to ask her though, I guess. That's the vibe I got anyways.

Hey everyone, sorry I couldn't be here again. Wish I could have been, sounds like it was a hot chat Does anyone have the full transcript? I want to reserve my thoughts until I can read it all.

ETA: NVM, saw the thread

What I asked you was in direct relation to what had been said about you in that chat.



I recall that you said in the group chat, Chance that Mary had heard from Cory about the Awohali/Tina deal. Yet you posted the chat transcript, which shows you heard about it together from Cory. What gives?

Let me just put the whole "Abrasiveness is a Spy Tactic" nonsense of an argument to rest by pointing out the character biography which was written prior to the game's start, which means prior to roles being dealt. Unless I bribed our beloved & corrupt judge into giving me a Spy role, that accusation is entirely moot.

Sorry, folks, but good guys can be assholes.

Claude is aware of this argument and still maintains that it's a Spy tactic. I would love to hear his explanation for why.

I would also like to know where Mary's words were distorted. She's adamant that she never said I was "pushy and offered no information," but more than one person said this was the case. From memory, these two people were Chance & Claude. Someone please post the chat transcript from the afternoon of the 17th?

Because I have nothing better to do at the moment, here is a list of occurrences which are relevant to 'pushy' in regards to Cory and Mary conversation. I am getting these from the posted chat transcripts from Cinnamyn and Isaac.


spies8claude: (10:21:54 PM)It's suspect that you pushed me(and apparently others) hard for information, while talking none about yourself. It's suspicious that you dodged joining this group, despite having been invited multiple times, until someone specifically asked you why you didn't join [(and apparently others) what others Claude?]

spies8cory: (10:22:56 PM)I find it hilarious you find me pushing people for information to be suspicious.

spies8cinnamyn: (10:24:23 PM)i am interested in wen claude says "you pushed hard 4 information but sed none about yoself"

spies8chance: (10:25:02 PM)well, apparently cory was pressing mary pretty hardcore for info without answering any of her questions, or something. [Where did you hear this Chance?]

spies8jasmine: (10:25:27 PM)I did hear Cory was an ass to Mary as well. [Source?]

spies8claude: (10:27:49 PM)So when you push people for information, while not providing any yourself, it is suspect behavior.

spies8cinnamyn: (10:32:28 PM)sum1 said u "grilled" mary 4 information, cory. did u.? [You put grilled in quotes. I assume it was a direct quote. Who said grilled to you Cinnamyn?]

spies8claude: (10:33:16 PM)Seems like that is what Mary said herself. But I'm not 100% on it being her.

spies8chance: (10:33:17 PM)really ought to be asking mary that, i think.

spies8cinnamyn: (10:34:32 PM)whether or not cory wuz grillin' mary for info

spies8jasmine: (10:35:39 PM)mary grills herself, that bitch was all over Chance and such earlier today.

spies8cory: (10:35:44 PM)I would not interpret my conversation as grilling.
spies8cory: (10:36:01 PM)She asked me the same questions I asked her.
spies8cory: (10:36:06 PM)I answered every question.
spies8cory: (10:36:13 PM)I dare you to find a single person who would say I have avoided a question.

spies8chance: (10:36:54 PM)i think mary would say you've avoided questions, but we'll have to wait for her to know for sure. [Why do you speak so much for Mary, Chance?]

spies8claude: (10:37:37 PM)I didn't say that you 'avoided' questions. I said that all you did was push for information

spies8claude: (10:46:11 PM)No, I didn't have a chance to ask him anything, he pushed at me until I simply stopped responding(yet still managed to talk to 2-3 others). [Later on Claude posted the relevant chat bits. Due to the time stamps they show Claude had ample time to respond during the pushing from Cory. Claude also admitted later than he simply was not interested in talking.]

spies8broderick: (10:45:32 PM)Did you ask him questions Claude?
spies8cinnamyn: (10:46:18 PM)and no he didn't proderick, claude heard dat from mary

spies8chance: (10:46:26 PM)i remember mary saying you didn't come into the chat until she messaged you about it.
spies8broderick: (10:47:00 PM)oh. so Mary told Claude than Cory was avoiding coming into the chat and was asking questions without giving up info?

spies8chance: (10:48:48 PM)does it strike anyone else as odd that almost all of this is filtering back to mary in some way?

spies8chance: (10:49:43 PM)who did we hear that 'cory is pushing people for information without volunteering any of his own' from?
spies8chance: (10:49:44 PM)mary. [When did this happen?]

spies8cinnamyn: (10:58:52 PM)if mary and cory iz ur suspects, y r u usin' mary's word as the biggest daming evidence against cory.?
spies8cinnamyn: (10:59:12 PM)that seems stupid 2 me im jus' sayin
spies8claude: (10:59:27 PM)I was the first person to say that cory was pushy
spies8claude: (10:59:32 PM)Mary just went along with it [So you and Mary discussed Cory? In relation to the conversations you each had with him? *Noted for later.]
spies8chance: (10:59:33 PM)were you?
spies8chance: (10:59:41 PM)i don't recall that. [Who do you think was the first to call Cory pushy?]
spies8claude: (10:59:48 PM)As far as I can recall, I was

spies8claude: (10:59:58 PM)I don't remember her saying it before I did, but it could have been before I was in the chat.

spies8cory: (11:00:23 PM)Claude was definitely the first person to say "Cory is a Spy"
spies8margot: (11:00:42 PM)you like being pushed around, jasmine? you think it's hot?
spies8cory: (11:00:44 PM)Mary made no mention of it earlier while I was on [Mention of what?]

spies8chance: (11:01:58 PM)i remember mary saying cory was pushy. but i'm not sure when claude said it. [Uh huh?]

spies8claude: (11:04:23 PM)pushing people to talk about themselves while not talking about yourself is not 'initiating conversation'

spies8claude: (11:13:18 PM)Broderick is also not being pushy, in my estimation
spies8cinnamyn: (11:13:21 PM)i shall unleash mah frosted bunz to protect u.!
spies8claude: (11:13:23 PM)He seems genuinely curious

spies8chance: (11:14:21 PM)i honestly don't see anything suspicious about that conversation.

spies8broderick (10:26:46 PM): From what I seem to beunderstanding, is that part of your suspicion upon Cory is that he was pushing for information which is something you heard from Mary, right?
spies8claude (10:30:21 PM): I felt like he was pushing me for information, without really trying to 'make conversation'.
spies8claude (10:30:31 PM): Mary said he did the same to her, which reinforced what I already thought. [Earlier you said you were the first to call Cory pushy, and Mary went along with it. Now Mary actually said he pushed her for information?]


spies8claude (10:57:01 PM): Earlier, you said that you thought Cory was really pushy towards you..can you explain that?
spies8mary (10:57:26 PM): I said he called me Bloody Mary right off the bat.
spies8mary (10:57:40 PM): And I said that after we stopped talking
spies8mary (10:57:50 PM): And Jasmine said I thought he was rude
spies8claude (10:57:57 PM): Hmm, seemed like people thought it was more than that. [If you had already discussed Cory with Mary in regards to both of yours conversations with him. Why repeat? What do you mean 'seemed like people thought it was more than that'? You said 'Mary said he did the same to her'.]

spies8claude (10:58:10 PM): When you guys chatted, how did that go?
spies8mary (10:58:18 PM): Cory and I?
spies8mary (10:58:33 PM): He seemed inquisitive.
spies8claude (10:58:50 PM): Did you ask him questions at all? How was he about sharing his own information?
spies8mary (10:58:54 PM): Rude and a bit brash.
spies8mary (10:59:11 PM): Hmm, I'd have to think about what I asked him.
spies8mary (10:59:16 PM): I usually ask people questions.

spies8mary (11:04:43 PM): Hmm.
spies8mary (11:05:06 PM): I got the impression that he was fairly bright and aggressive.
spies8mary (11:05:29 PM): And rude, but that is somewhat irrelevant to mafia.
spies8claude (11:05:32 PM): Yeah, that's a given.
spies8claude (11:05:38 PM): but none of those things are indicative of alignment. If bright, aggressive, and rudeness are not indicative of alignment. Then why are you using Cory's abrasiveness as a reason to think he is a spy?]






Switching gears for definite now.

spies8cinnamyn: (11:29:58 PM)can we switch gears.? who sed sum1 brought up awohali.?
spies8chance: (11:30:09 PM)cory brought him up.
spies8jasmine: (11:30:13 PM)Lots of people did earlier. yea.

spies8jasmine: (11:30:20 PM)Someone else did though too
spies8chance: (11:30:28 PM)it might have been mary.
spies8jasmine: (11:30:33 PM)Maybe, ya.
spies8jasmine: (11:30:37 PM)Not sure.
spies8chance: (11:30:40 PM)i'm trying to remember exactly what was said.
spies8jasmine: (11:30:51 PM)She did say a lot.
spies8chance: (11:31:07 PM)apparently, hal said something to the effect of 'no exile could be a valid vote, if we're sure there's no spies on our team.'
spies8chance: (11:31:29 PM)which apparently raised a red flag on cory's suspicion-o-meter, because it seemed like an odd assumption to make at the time.

spies8chance: (11:32:42 PM)i think i'd left by that point. [You left 26 seconds after Awohali made his No Exile comment in the Spies8 room on the 16th.]

spies8claude: (11:35:56 PM)And it was Cory that originally brought this point up?
spies8chance: (11:36:03 PM)to me, anyway.
spies8claude: (11:36:28 PM)Just to you? Or to the public chat?
spies8chance: (11:36:33 PM)now that i think about it, i think i heard it secondhand from mary.
spies8chance: (11:36:43 PM)as in, 'mary said that cory said'. [Cory said it to you directly. Then you heard it secondhand from Mary? *Noted for later]

spies8chance: (11:40:37 PM)i don't think he said it privately to hal, because i haven't talked to hal. [Why would you know whether or not Cory said something privately to Awohali?]
spies8chance: (11:40:48 PM)i think he said it in the group chat, but you'd have to ask mary to be sure. Why would Mary have to be asked whether or not something was said in a group chat?]


spies8claude (11:01:25 PM): What was the deal with Cory and Awohlia?
spies8chance (11:01:32 PM): 'sup guys. i was just about to go to bed.
spies8mary (11:02:02 PM): I didn't recall anything between them until Cory mentioned it today.
spies8mary (11:02:16 PM): He said Awohali mentioned no lynch and Cory didn't like it.
spies8claude (11:02:31 PM): Do you remember if Cory said anything about that publicly?
spies8mary (11:02:32 PM): As I recall.
spies8claude (11:02:34 PM): yesterday I mean..
spies8mary (11:02:37 PM): No.
spies8mary (11:02:42 PM): No clue.
spies8chance (11:03:14 PM): 'night guys.
spies8claude (11:03:36 PM): disappointing

spies8mary (11:06:51 PM): What's that, the no lynch question?
spies8mary (11:07:53 PM): spies8cory: Well, it was a very minor thing.
spies8cory: He said in chat that no exile might be a valid tactic.
spies8cory: But he was saying it under the assumption we had no spies on one of the teams.
spies8mary: That's pretty unlikely.
spies8claude (11:08:25 PM): That was in a personal conversation?
spies8mary (11:08:31 PM): Yes.
spies8mary (11:08:34 PM): I think so.
spies8claude (11:08:37 PM): How did it come up?
spies8mary (11:08:46 PM): I asked him about the people he'd talked with.
spies8mary (11:09:20 PM): I am supposed to avoid pasting too much.
spies8claude (11:09:31 PM): I know
spies8mary (11:09:38 PM): But basically he and I just talked about a few people
spies8claude (11:09:41 PM): I pasted about 15 lines of text earlier, with approval from Sam
spies8mary (11:09:42 PM): And Awohali came up
spies8claude (11:09:43 PM): So you're okay there.
spies8broderick (11:09:58 PM): you told chance about it Mary?
spies8mary (11:10:03 PM): This is how it came up, I asked him about him.
spies8mary (11:10:09 PM): spies8mary: What do you think of Awohali?
spies8cory: No strong opinion yet.
spies8cory: He seems to like to say what'll please you.
spies8cory: I mentioned something to him that Tina pointed out last night and he got pretty upset.

spies8mary (11:10:24 PM): Chance and I talked a little.
spies8mary (11:10:36 PM): I don't think I mentioned anything about no lynch
spies8broderick (11:10:48 PM): but you talked to him about this no vote thing which Awohali said to Cory?
spies8mary (11:10:50 PM): So no, probably not. I could be wrong but I don't think so.
spies8mary (11:10:56 PM): Maybe.

spies8mary (11:12:26 PM): I don't see that Chance and I discussed it in private.
spies8broderick (11:12:30 PM): if you didnt tell chance about it, then why did he say you told him?
spies8mary (11:12:38 PM): It's possible it came up in this room.
spies8mary (11:13:00 PM): Offhandedly--"He mentioned Awohali over the no lynch thing last night"
spies8mary (11:13:06 PM): Or something to that effect. [If it was an offhand comment, why was Chance so specific in the word usage? Change?]


Sidestep back to Cory/Claude

spies8claude (11:20:12 PM): I accused him of being too forceful in trying to get information out of other people, and not forthcoming enough with information of his own. [You accused him of pushing you (and apparently others) for information Claude. 'Other people' is not the same.]






As the clock ticks late my brain is becoming mush. I will finish the rest of the transcript later.

what do you mean, 'what gives'? i'm not seeing a difference here.



what different stance? i'm not seeing your point.



earlier.



to me? the word 'pushy' wasn't ever used, now that i've gone back and read, but the first person to be rubbed the wrong way by cory was actually dane.



bullshit. the quote this is in response to is a stance. devil's advocate is how i play mafia. sorry if you don't like it, brod.



because the reason i hadn't talked to hal is that he hadn't been online, at least not to my knowledge. can't very well talk to someone if they aren't online. you're being extremely reachy now, brod.



because i knew mary was there too and i wasn't for sure of my information and was too busy to go find it in the archives.

There are a lot of good thouhjt processes going on here, so I just wanted to throw my two cents in, for what it matters.

Reading the chat logs, and particularly Broderick's synopsis, I see two people coming across as the most suspicious--Claude and Chance. To a lesser extent, Mary and Cory are in there, but I think the fallout from this whole thing has come out as oyhers misusing their words to make them seem worse.

With exile happening so soon, it's time to start narrowing things dowm. So, for the time being, I at least, am going to focus on those I see as coming off the worst.

Unfortunately, as of the time of this writing, I haven't had the chan...opportunity to talk with Chance--O don't eve think we've been on at ther same times (later edit: he's on while I type this). So I'm having to go entirely based on transcripts for him. But let's take itone at a time.

Claude--


And there was also this line--
spies8claude: (10:09:34 PM)I would generally vote someone that I don't think is a spy before voting no exile

I do think you're pushing Cory a bit hard over what seemss like little. And that last statement needs a little clarification...while I don't think there would ever be a pont this came up--are you saying that if you truly didn't think anyone was a aspy you wouldn't ote no exile? Or just that you don't think you'd ever have a point where you thought nobody could be a aspy?


Chance--


So, Chance--it looks like you're jumping around a bit. Do you have a particular target, or are you just graspin at anything that seems like it might work?



And honestly, I'm not really sure where this all leads. After going through everything like 4 times to make this post, I kind of am drawn to the case against Claude, but something about it isn't sitting right. Anyone else have opinions to add?


//EDIT: Fixing quote tag

Yeah, followup after actually talking with Chace. The Awo section shouldn't have been there...it was meant to be a side note and was taken out of context. And
That also takes out quite a few comments on Cory, too--So I retract the question.

Claude? You're turn.

Lawrence, here are the answers you asked for:



Is this question really even necessary? Note that I said 'apparently others', indicating that I wasn't exactly sure whom, only that I thought I recalled seeing other people mention it. Which Mary did.



How is this even a question? Clearly, my statement is in regard to what Cinnamyn just said, which was "sum1 said u "grilled" mary 4 information, cory. did u.? " Maybe you don't realize what she is actually saying here. She is telling Cory that someone said that he grilled Mary for information, and asking him if he did. I responded to say that I thought that it was Mary herself whom said this, but that I was not 100% sure.

Seems like you're just confused here; hopefully that cleared it up.

Camilla: Where did you get the idea that I am "pushy and hoard information"? You are stating it here as if you know it for fact. But we've never conversed. And as far as I know, we haven't really been in chat together much. Please clarify.